Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Phil Gardocki · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:46 pm Post subject: 1.5 Lance rule

Can someone give me an informed opinion, (FHE can sit this one out), as to why the Lance was increased in lethality? I have intuited hints, but do know why. I have heard it was because LMI LTS JLS SH were hunting down cavalry and killing them. I have heard to do away with wedge, but keeping the effectiveness of the wedge army knights. But I really have a hard time understanding a rule change that has the following effect. A unit of Thematic Byzantine cavalry, 6 Reg B EHC L,SH Back rank EHC B, (94 points ) vs 6 impetuous Irreg 'D' HC,L,SH (67 points) will rout 66.7% on contact. And will only resist the D's charge, by tie or push back, 4.3% of the time.

Phil G

Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 367

Phil, I think you might be just looking at these cases in a vacuum and not as a whole list or table top game. I would never put IRR. D. HC armed with nukes on the table. Just my 2 cents, I do like the discussion. David

scott holder · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2001 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5 Lance rule

Give it a rest Phil:) Smile

Trust me on this one, despite what you're seeing on
the *current* (and let me stress current) Thematic Fast Warrior list, this
particular issue and how it impacts the Byzantines will be resolved in a
matter to your liking prior to publication of any Fast Warrior list or
Thematic Byzantine lists.

>>> PHGamer@... 3/14/01 9:46:00 AM >>>

Can someone give me an informed opinion, (FHE can sit this one out), as to
why the Lance was increased in lethality? I have intuited hints, but do know
why. I have heard it was because LMI LTS JLS SH were hunting down cavalry
and killing them. I have heard to do away with wedge, but keeping the
effectiveness of the wedge army knights. But I really have a hard time
understanding a rule change that has the following effect. A unit of Thematic
Byzantine cavalry, 6 Reg B EHC L,SH Back rank EHC B, (94 points ) vs 6
impetuous Irreg 'D' HC,L,SH (67 points) will rout 66.7% on contact. And
will only resist the D's charge, by tie or push back, 4.3% of the time.

Phil G

Phil Gardocki · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5 Lance rule

Dave,
      It was just an example to show how absurd I think the play balance is. When calculating the 67%, I included the 'D's removing 1 from any up die rolls.

      Frankly, if my army allowed for a good number of D class HC,L,Sh, I would run them. They will run off Lights and require my opponent to focus superior force to deal with them.
      And of course the rest of my army will have to be at least 281 paces away when they rout.
Phil

Phil, I think you might be just looking at these cases in a vacuum and not as a whole list or table top game. I would never put IRR. D. HC armed with nukes on the table. Just my 2 cents, I do like the discussion. David

Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 367

Phil, your right about the play balance if it's a one on one case, however I believe as a whole play balance is just fine. I also just told Greg to stop giving out free tactical advice so I too must keep most of my 2 cents to our group. I do wish to invite you to a Warrior tourney in San Antonio on the week end of May 19 & 20. We always share tactics and list ideas at our tourneys. The flyer should be out soon. David

Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 367

Greg is right the odds are that the HC would get shot for 2 CFP's, plus there is also a good chance that they would be disordered and then charge thus requiring a waver test with a really good chance for failing, being broken and causing more checks of the other IRR D HC and then with the new 50% check for each command......Phil come to San Antonio in May, David.

Phil Gardocki · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5 Lance rule

I think you are missing the point of this somewhat tongue in cheek comment.
I have stopped using what I perceived to be high powered lights to run off, in theory, low powered lights, simply because it still became a die rolling contest. Winner chases, loser gets waver checks. My personal answer to the situation is to run heavy cav after the lights. Whether they catch them or not, the enemy lights are going in the direction I want them to go. D class heavy's do this job almost as effectively as A class troops.

Phil G

Given that these D's would have to be under attack orders to charge without testing ... and orders being orders ... I think it more likely these D's would end up getting shot for two and having to charge something they really don't care to.

Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 367

I too have run HC and also MC with LC to accomplish the something. I must says you have more guts than I to run any D's other than LI, although I have run MI REG. w/LTS with some good results. I can't help with the airfare but we should be able to put you up if you can make it. Which list or lists have IRR. D. HC, L SH? David

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Given that these D's would have to be under attack orders to charge without testing ... and orders being orders ... I think it more likely these D's would end up getting shot for two and having to charge something they really don't care to.

Just my opinion though ... Greg

-----Original Message-----From: PHGamer@aol.com [mailto:PHGamer@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:44 AMTo: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance ruleDave, It was just an example to show how absurd I think the play balance is. When calculating the 67%, I included the 'D's removing 1 from any up die rolls. Frankly, if my army allowed for a good number of D class HC,L,Sh, I would run them. They will run off Lights and require my opponent to focus superior force to deal with them. And of course the rest of my army will have to be at least 281 paces away when they rout. Phil
Phil, I think you might be just looking at these cases in a vacuum and not as a whole list or table top game. I would never put IRR. D. HC armed with nukes on the table. Just my 2 cents, I do like the discussion. David To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

scott holder · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2001 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: RE: 1.5 Lance rule

Anyone interested in who's on the NICT qualifier list (sorry to intrude on
general Warrior bitching about 1.5 ranks of lance>grin<), go to my web site.
Or go to www.nasamw.org and follow the link for "NICT Qualifiers".

Scott

>>> greg@... 03/14/01 17:31 PM >>>

See, that was our mistake. We thought that article in Spearpoint about our
tournament with that little star next to the winners that said "NICT
Qualifier" was gonna do it.

Johnny G is from Louisiana ... talk about inbred!

-----Original Message-----
From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brown@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:01 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule

Greg,

Making the cut requires the lengthly process of simply informing the chief
umpire that one of you "longhorns" has won your local rodeo and now
qualifies. It's probably a bit more detailed than that, but not much more. I
suggest contacting Scott and getting the requirements so someone
besides..what was his name...Green (?) can 'represent'.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:45 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule

Tim, you promissed not to tell anyone about me being married to my brother
in laws sister, now here you are putting it in an email!

I think a few of us are planning on Historican this coming year. I would
like to participate in the NICT, but we never seem to make the cut list in
Spearpoint. Perhaps now that we have a "homeboy" for a President, we will be
included!

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brow@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:04 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule

***de-lurking***

Come on,now, Greg, you know we Easters don't think of you as stupid. Inbred,
perhaps, but just as competent. Smile

Of course, if we could just coax you
guys out of big ole Texas every once in a while to come visit the United
States, you could enlighten us. I'm pretty sure Texas would still be there
when you got back! <g>

Tim
(lurking mode: on)

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:39 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule

Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics
that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

G

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Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

G

Tim Brown · Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 326

***de-lurking***

Come on,now, Greg, you know we Easters don't think of you as stupid. Inbred, perhaps, but just as competent. Smile

Of course, if we could just coax you guys out of big ole Texas every once in a while to come visit the United States, you could enlighten us. I'm pretty sure Texas would still be there when you got back! <g>

Tim
(lurking mode: on)

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:39 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

GTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Tim, you promissed not to tell anyone about me being married to my brother in laws sister, now here you are putting it in an email!

I think a few of us are planning on Historican this coming year. I would like to participate in the NICT, but we never seem to make the cut list in Spearpoint. Perhaps now that we have a "homeboy" for a President, we will be included!

Greg

-----Original Message-----From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brown@trenwick.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:04 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
***de-lurking***

Come on,now, Greg, you know we Easters don't think of you as stupid. Inbred, perhaps, but just as competent. Smile

Of course, if we could just coax you guys out of big ole Texas every once in a while to come visit the United States, you could enlighten us. I'm pretty sure Texas would still be there when you got back! <g>

Tim
(lurking mode: on)

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:39 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

GTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Tim Brown · Legionary Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 326

Greg,

Making the cut requires the lengthly process of simply informing the chief umpire that one of you "longhorns" has won your local rodeo and now qualifies. It's probably a bit more detailed than that, but not much more. I suggest contacting Scott and getting the requirements so someone besides..what was his name...Green (?) can 'represent'.

Tim

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:45 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Tim, you promissed not to tell anyone about me being married to my brother in laws sister, now here you are putting it in an email!

I think a few of us are planning on Historican this coming year. I would like to participate in the NICT, but we never seem to make the cut list in Spearpoint. Perhaps now that we have a "homeboy" for a President, we will be included!

Greg

-----Original Message-----From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brown@trenwick.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:04 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
***de-lurking***

Come on,now, Greg, you know we Easters don't think of you as stupid. Inbred, perhaps, but just as competent. Smile

Of course, if we could just coax you guys out of big ole Texas every once in a while to come visit the United States, you could enlighten us. I'm pretty sure Texas would still be there when you got back! <g>

Tim
(lurking mode: on)

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:39 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

GTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

See, that was our mistake. We thought that article in Spearpoint about our tournament with that little star next to the winners that said "NICT Qualifier" was gonna do it.

Johnny G is from Louisiana ... talk about inbred!

-----Original Message-----From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brown@trenwick.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:01 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule

Greg,

Making the cut requires the lengthly process of simply informing the chief umpire that one of you "longhorns" has won your local rodeo and now qualifies. It's probably a bit more detailed than that, but not much more. I suggest contacting Scott and getting the requirements so someone besides..what was his name...Green (?) can 'represent'.

Tim

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:45 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Tim, you promissed not to tell anyone about me being married to my brother in laws sister, now here you are putting it in an email!

I think a few of us are planning on Historican this coming year. I would like to participate in the NICT, but we never seem to make the cut list in Spearpoint. Perhaps now that we have a "homeboy" for a President, we will be included!

Greg

-----Original Message-----From: Brown,Tim [mailto:Tim.Brown@trenwick.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:04 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
***de-lurking***

Come on,now, Greg, you know we Easters don't think of you as stupid. Inbred, perhaps, but just as competent. Smile

Of course, if we could just coax you guys out of big ole Texas every once in a while to come visit the United States, you could enlighten us. I'm pretty sure Texas would still be there when you got back! <g>

Tim
(lurking mode: on)

-----Original Message-----From: Greg Regets [mailto:greg@parkerwood.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:39 PMTo: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 1.5 Lance rule
Damn big Dave ... your sure talkin' a lot of smack today!

Don't you know that this is one of those vaunted East Coast NASAMW tactics that we local yokels are too stupid to understand, ~winks~

GTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.