Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

Dave

For those who use 28-30mm figures, we have Warrior 30mm, which will shortly
be in the files section of the WarriorRules egroup.

Jon

[joncleaves]

Warrior 30mm will be just as official as Warrior 25mm, 15mm or 6mm.

Now, having said that, I don't see NASAMW hosting a Cold Wars/Historicon
Warrior tourney until enough players have figures based for that scale. It
would probably take at least eight committed players....you'd have to ask
Scott about that.

J

[joncleaves]

I would add that neither I nor any of the many 25mm players I play with has
trouble finding ways to mount close order figs for 25mm when using figs that
are NOT 25mm (such as 28mm or 30mm). Especially in light of the last two
paragraphs of 2.512.

Jon

In a message dated 7/13/02 8:28:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dave8365@...
writes:

<< Subj: [WarriorRules] 25mm Basing
Date: 7/13/02 8:28:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: dave8365@... (dave8365)
Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com">
WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com</A>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com

Ok - let's open a can of worms!

I have two newly painted but unmounted 25mm armies; Greek Hoplite and
Macedonian. I also have a few others in the works (Marian Romans,
LIR, WoR).

It is a fact of life that 60mm x 20mm is too damn narrow and shallow
to fit 4 CO infantry, and 60mm is also too damn narrow to put 3
cavalry
(much less 4 SHC cavalry!)

I was originally going to do a different game, and make stands which
kept the same proportions as the DBX/Warrior mounting scheme, but let
you actually fit the troops on the stands. These are as follows:

60mm x 20mm = 3" x 1"
60mm x 30mm = 3" x 1.5"
60mm x 40mm = 3" x 2"
60mm x 60mm = 3" x 3"

Because Warrior is fairly new (well...kinda...) and there is a
returning shift to people acquiring 25mm armies, don't you Ho's and
others on the list think that this would be as good a time as any to
begin permitting an alternative basing system which acknowledges the
truth about "figure creep"?

There are many other good reasons, which I won't list here.

So - whaddayathink?

Cheers,
Dave Lynch

>>


There _is_ a 30mm basing standard out there, which maybe you and a guy in
Tierra del Fuego will use. I see no stampede to it.
I have Redoubt Trojan Wars figures. These are very large, with very large
shields which have no real good way to hang them on the figure. You are
lucky to fit 3 on a 60mm x 20mm base. I whined about the basing for 25mm
figures a few months ago, and Jon gave me the fuzzy warm advice he is known
for: "Live with it."
Seriously, the 30mm basing was contemporary with my whines, so I take some
credit for it.
My solution was to mount my larger figures on 25mm LMI stands, that is,
incease the depth to 30mm. Stagger the placement, with 1 and 3 aft, and 2
and 4 to the fore, and even Redoubt Mycenaean pikemen will fit. This, by the
way is specifically permitted by the rules in the basing section. Some
anomalies have already come up for me. I got a Eureka Fast Warrior Assyrian
army, with large, long based HI and LHI/LMI. If you are going to be basing
both on LMI bases, you must be able to distinguish the two types for
yourself, and your opponent. I can base the HI on 25mm depth bases in a
straight line, and the LMI on 30mm depth, staggered. That is one way. It is
really important to be easily able to distinguish them in tournament play.
You can base your figures any way you wish, as long as your element frontages
stay consistent. You can use the 30mm basing option also. Just remember
that when you go to a tournament, the main brackets are 15mm and 25mm. The
likelihood of a 30mm bracket is remote. Veterans like myself have tons of
25mm figures based for 25mm play. It is unrealistic to expect them or me for
that matter to rebase our old armies.

OK, Jon. Did I follow the Party Line OK? Even the part about "Don't pester
the Colonel?"

John the OFM

Ok - let's open a can of worms!

I have two newly painted but unmounted 25mm armies; Greek Hoplite and
Macedonian. I also have a few others in the works (Marian Romans,
LIR, WoR).

It is a fact of life that 60mm x 20mm is too damn narrow and shallow
to fit 4 CO infantry, and 60mm is also too damn narrow to put 3
cavalry
(much less 4 SHC cavalry!)

I was originally going to do a different game, and make stands which
kept the same proportions as the DBX/Warrior mounting scheme, but let
you actually fit the troops on the stands. These are as follows:

60mm x 20mm = 3" x 1"
60mm x 30mm = 3" x 1.5"
60mm x 40mm = 3" x 2"
60mm x 60mm = 3" x 3"

Because Warrior is fairly new (well...kinda...) and there is a
returning shift to people acquiring 25mm armies, don't you Ho's and
others on the list think that this would be as good a time as any to
begin permitting an alternative basing system which acknowledges the
truth about "figure creep"?

There are many other good reasons, which I won't list here.

So - whaddayathink?

Cheers,
Dave Lynch

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/13/2002 13:40:19 Central Daylight Time,
johncarroll453@... writes:

<< OK, Jon. Did I follow the Party Line OK? >>

Yes, John, you did fine. :)

The main issue with this thread is there is a great deal of mixing of apples,
oranges and papayas.

Apples (FHE): 2.512 allows you all the flexibility you need. This plus our
imminent 30mm scale means Warrior FULLY addresses the problem.

Oranges (NASAMW): Just because FHE makes a 30mm scale for Warrior does not
mean enough players will base 30mm armies to justify a NASAMW event. You
really MUST keep the two organizations separate. FHE makes games. NASAMW
runs ancients events and NOT all of them. You have six guys in your area
with 30mm (or 10mm or 54mm or 90mm) Warrior armies, have a tourney!!

Papayas (Manufacturers): A 28mm or 30mm figure is NOT a 25mm figure. Such a
figure is not in scale in a 25mm game. That some manufacturers advertise
28-30mm figures as being 25mm does not make them 25mm. This is not FHE's
problem. I'll write the 'rules' for any scale for Warrior. But the issue of
manufacturers making nominally 25mm figs incorrectly large for the advertised
scale has two basic solutions. One, you can do what I and the vast majority
of Warrior players do - base them as though they were 25mm and play your
games in 25mm scale. Two, you can wait a week or so until I get the official
30mm scale rules up here and then base your figs for the scale they truly are
and play them that way.

What I do not see happening anytime soon is for NASAMW to terminate the
running of events like the Warrior NICT or whatever in 25mm and switching to
30mm, NOR do I see the majority of 25mm players rebasing for 30mm. So, for
me, the useful course of action is to base those 28-30mm figs as 25mm which I
have had no problem doing given the flexibility of 2.512.

But that is just me.

Jon

Jon, will this basing be official for tournaments and such?

--Kurt



----- Original Message -----
From: <JonCleaves@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 25mm Basing


> Dave
>
> For those who use 28-30mm figures, we have Warrior 30mm, which will
shortly
> be in the files section of the WarriorRules egroup.
>
> Jon
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[Chris Bump]

In a message dated Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:27:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, dave8365
writes:

> Ok - let's open a can of worms!
>
> I have two newly painted but unmounted 25mm armies; Greek Hoplite and
> Macedonian. I also have a few others in the works (Marian Romans,
> LIR, WoR).
>
> It is a fact of life that 60mm x 20mm is too damn narrow and shallow
> to fit 4 CO infantry, and 60mm is also too damn narrow to put 3
> cavalry
> (much less 4 SHC cavalry!)
>
> I was originally going to do a different game, and make stands which
> kept the same proportions as the DBX/Warrior mounting scheme, but let
> you actually fit the troops on the stands. These are as follows:
>
> 60mm x 20mm = 3" x 1"
> 60mm x 30mm = 3" x 1.5"
> 60mm x 40mm = 3" x 2"
> 60mm x 60mm = 3" x 3"
>
> Because Warrior is fairly new (well...kinda...) and there is a
> returning shift to people acquiring 25mm armies, don't you Ho's and
> others on the list think that this would be as good a time as any to
> begin permitting an alternative basing system which
> acknowledges the
> truth about "figure creep"?
>
> There are many other good reasons, which I won't list here.
>
> So - whaddayathink?
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Lynch
>


Dave,

I am not going to berate you as I have others for this rant. I use nothing but
foundry and OG figures. My cav fit nicely on the renaissance ink stands and
they are beveled, thus cutting down on space. Granted the Infantry figures as
they are out of the bag are difficult to fit depth wise on the stands, but with
a little, emphasis on little, it can be done. Buying painted armies is a whole
other problem, because likely the artist did not trim the bases or cut out the
base and squeeze the legs together. It is difficult to fit close ofder cav on a
stand, but again I am able to so presumably everyone is (Just ask Don, I am no
engineer). If you line the figures up before you mount them, then you can often
find your way to making them fit nicely.

I have no problem with a 30mm warrior or a 10mm game. My only concern is that
with different scales you may find a lack of opponents at tournaments. I am
sure that adaptions can be made to play 30mm bases in a 25mm game. I am rather
quick with arrythmatic, but there is lots of room for bad feelings as to
determining what the actual footprint of a unit is. I am loathe to rebase my
guys just as anyone else is. I fear an empasse or at least the bad feelings
Warrior promises to alieviate from the days of 7x.
If you like I will happily work with you off line to demonstrate basing the
largest figures on the standard bases. That is just an offer and in no way a
suggestion or dig.
Chris

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Dave,

I agree with you! I wish we could go to an 80 mm frontage! That
way, Jon would not have to rebase all of those Warhammer Elves and
Skinks that he owns for Fantasy Warrior! LOL! This issue though has
been brought up before and the Four Ho's are sympatheic, but do not
wish to require everyone to rebase their old armies. Believe me, it
is no fun rebasing 10,000 figures!

Kelly
"Rebasing Hater Ho"

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Since there will be a new class of 25 mm, will the Nict be offered
for that scale? Additionally, Why not offer it for 15MM. I believe
that we all agree that 15mm plays differently that the 25mm game, so
Why not allow it as in the past unless you are afraid that 25mm
gamers will go over to the 15mm scale. 15mm is so much easier to pack
and take on an aircraft for that matter!

Kelly

--- In WarriorRules@y..., cncbump@a... wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I am not going to berate you as I have others for this rant.

DLL: I'm so pleased! To do so, especially without prior
introduction, would be most ungentlemanly... :-)

>Granted the Infantry figures as they are out of the bag are
difficult to fit depth wise on the stands, but with a little,
emphasis on little, it can be done.

DLL: Sorry, missed that... a little what? File down their
extremities?

>...If you line the figures up before you mount them, then you can
often find your way to making them fit nicely.

DLL: I suppose the problem I have is I don't want to have
to "squish" them all together. Yes, one can make them fit; but I
place as much emphasis on the aesthetics of miniature wargaming as
anything else, and after you are done filing, fiddling, squishing,
etc., there is minimal room for anything else to make the stands more
visually appealing and compliment the paintwork.

> I have no problem with a 30mm warrior or a 10mm game. My only
concern is that with different scales you may find a lack of
opponents at tournaments.

DLL: I thank you for your concern; but frankly, I'm not a tournament
player. I much prefer scenarios. I am also fortunate in that I have
a nice group of fellows to pay with. Additionally, I try and
have "matched" armies, so if people want to play, I can supply the
troops.

> If you like I will happily work with you off line to demonstrate
basing the largest figures on the standard bases. That is just an
offer and in no way a suggestion or dig.
> Chris

DLL: And I appreciate your comments, Chris. Just to be clear, any
of the above which appears possibly tongue in cheek is absolutely
meant in humor.

Jon - have you established the proposed base-sizing? I would like to
base my lads up (and might even be pursuaded to bring 2 matched FW
armies with me to Historicon for some "open gaming").

Cheers, and again, thanks to everyone for the input. One of the
other side benefits of all of this is that my interest in the rules
continues to build, and I will be attempting to bring the rest of my
pals along...

Dave Lynch

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/14/2002 7:14:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
dave8365@... writes:


> Jon - have you established the proposed base-sizing? I would like to
> base my lads up (and might even be pursuaded to bring 2 matched FW
> armies with me to Historicon for some "open gaming").
>

I have. A couple of days and I should have it posted.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]