Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Greg Regets]

Back on my 25mm knight based army research, it was interesting to hear the
comments from 25mm players, especially the comment that Comnenan Byzantine
was an above average list. I have played this army with great success in
15mm, but have always assumed that the table would be too small (across, not
side to side) to use the "wall-o-LC" tactic in 25mm. Is it not true that
laying 15mm's out on a 5x3 table largely simulates playing with 25mm?

I think we might also find that the relatively new rule that will not allow
troops with a weapon + JLS, to use the JLS bonus in subsequent bounds after
contact will definitely hurt armies like the Medieval Spanish. I know my
KofSt.J LHI Oarsmen do a serious number on things like Peltasts now, where
it used to be a dice thing.

I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army list ...
what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well with a 25mm
knight based army;

a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?

b. Terrain control?

c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and skirmishing
archers?

and of course, why you feel this way?

Thanks ... Greg

[Ewan McNay]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army list ...
> what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well with a 25mm
> knight based army;
>
> a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?

No. Gives the opponents a target - especially pike/elephant armies, which
may be a nemesis.

> b. Terrain control?

No. Your knights don't want to fight in terrain, so why are you fighting
near it? [Exception for fighting above pike/elephant combos, when you'd
like aas much brush as possible!]

> c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and skirmishing
> archers?

Yes. With a knight army, the game is to run in circles until you have
decided where the knights are going to hit and in what order, then hit.
Hence, you want things that can run in circles and preserve space for that
to happen, including by seizing space at game-start.

All this from a man about to play in Tim's Dogs tourney and violate all of
the above rules..

Ewan

--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. - Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)

[Greg Regets]

Thanks Ewan ... my thinking was heavy towards option c with a smattering of
terrain troops, the same formula I use in 15mm. As you well know, I like to
gather research before I pain a lot of lead (I bugged Ewan to death on
Seleucids). :-)

G

-----Original Message-----
From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@...]
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:14 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)


On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army list ...
> what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well with a 25mm
> knight based army;
>
> a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?

No. Gives the opponents a target - especially pike/elephant armies, which
may be a nemesis.

> b. Terrain control?

No. Your knights don't want to fight in terrain, so why are you fighting
near it? [Exception for fighting above pike/elephant combos, when you'd
like aas much brush as possible!]

> c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and skirmishing
> archers?

Yes. With a knight army, the game is to run in circles until you have
decided where the knights are going to hit and in what order, then hit.
Hence, you want things that can run in circles and preserve space for that
to happen, including by seizing space at game-start.

All this from a man about to play in Tim's Dogs tourney and violate all of
the above rules..

Ewan

--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. - Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Ewan McNay]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> Thanks Ewan ... my thinking was heavy towards option c with a smattering of
> terrain troops, the same formula I use in 15mm. As you well know, I like to

Smatterings are dangerous. I can see that enough to at least contest one
piece of terrain that you can't avoid fighting around; but more than that
risks becoming a distraction.

Having said that: Dave Stiers, quintessential 25mm knight player, uses a
*lot* of supporting loose order regular foot. He just pretends that it's
LC :)

> gather research before I pain a lot of lead (I bugged Ewan to death on
> Seleucids).
>
> G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@...]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:14 PM
> To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> > I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army list ...
> > what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well with a 25mm
> > knight based army;
> >
> > a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?
>
> No. Gives the opponents a target - especially pike/elephant armies, which
> may be a nemesis.
>
> > b. Terrain control?
>
> No. Your knights don't want to fight in terrain, so why are you fighting
> near it? [Exception for fighting above pike/elephant combos, when you'd
> like aas much brush as possible!]
>
> > c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and skirmishing
> > archers?
>
> Yes. With a knight army, the game is to run in circles until you have
> decided where the knights are going to hit and in what order, then hit.
> Hence, you want things that can run in circles and preserve space for that
> to happen, including by seizing space at game-start.
>
> All this from a man about to play in Tim's Dogs tourney and violate all of
> the above rules..
>
> Ewan
>
>

--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. - Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)

[Greg Regets]

I guess a smattering to me is enough to control, not just goof around with,
:-)

As far as LTS,JLS guys, I really feel that while still effective, the days
of these troop types dominating are about over, mostly due to the loss of
JLS bonus in bounds after contact and the 1.5 Lance rule. This is a good
change. Armies of "B" moral terrain troops running around out in the open
combined with the increase to 1600 points, almost drove me out of this game
a few years back. I know there is some historical backing for this type of
battle, but the games started reminding me of lining up plastic soldiers and
rolling marbles at them. Thank goodness a bit of "player" balance has been
put back in.

G

-----Original Message-----
From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@...]
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:22 PM
To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)


On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> Thanks Ewan ... my thinking was heavy towards option c with a smattering
of
> terrain troops, the same formula I use in 15mm. As you well know, I like
to

Smatterings are dangerous. I can see that enough to at least contest one
piece of terrain that you can't avoid fighting around; but more than that
risks becoming a distraction.

Having said that: Dave Stiers, quintessential 25mm knight player, uses a
*lot* of supporting loose order regular foot. He just pretends that it's
LC :)

> gather research before I pain a lot of lead (I bugged Ewan to death on
> Seleucids).
>
> G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@...]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:14 PM
> To: 'WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> > I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army list
...
> > what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well with a
25mm
> > knight based army;
> >
> > a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?
>
> No. Gives the opponents a target - especially pike/elephant armies, which
> may be a nemesis.
>
> > b. Terrain control?
>
> No. Your knights don't want to fight in terrain, so why are you fighting
> near it? [Exception for fighting above pike/elephant combos, when you'd
> like aas much brush as possible!]
>
> > c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and skirmishing
> > archers?
>
> Yes. With a knight army, the game is to run in circles until you have
> decided where the knights are going to hit and in what order, then hit.
> Hence, you want things that can run in circles and preserve space for that
> to happen, including by seizing space at game-start.
>
> All this from a man about to play in Tim's Dogs tourney and violate all of
> the above rules..
>
> Ewan
>
>

--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. - Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I have played the Knights of St. John Rhodian list using the SHK
dismounted and backed by the LMI crossbow men, the EHI LTS backed by
LMI crossbow and the marines behind ditched palisades. In one
memorable tournament I lost 10-0 in 5 games and drew 5-5 in one. Why
did I loose? Those stupid $#@*^* @#$%^ (*%&&4 BOMBARDS! Without
them, this army is actually quite good. Knights don't bother the SHI
and everyone else gets disordered on the palisade. I leave gaps in
the fence for the SHI and EHI and put everone else behind the wall.
With only 1300 points, this is a good option. Tournaments here range
from 1200 - 1500 points.

But I've been noticing a reoccuring comment in the group, "close range
crossbow". In 7th, a unit that is two ranks of crossbow fired at full
effect at 80 paces. What have you guys been playing????


--- In WarriorRules@y..., Greg Regets <greg@p...> wrote:
> I guess a smattering to me is enough to control, not just goof
around with,
>
>
> As far as LTS,JLS guys, I really feel that while still effective,
the days
> of these troop types dominating are about over, mostly due to the
loss of
> JLS bonus in bounds after contact and the 1.5 Lance rule. This is a
good
> change. Armies of "B" moral terrain troops running around out in the
open
> combined with the increase to 1600 points, almost drove me out of
this game
> a few years back. I know there is some historical backing for this
type of
> battle, but the games started reminding me of lining up plastic
soldiers and
> rolling marbles at them. Thank goodness a bit of "player" balance
has been
> put back in.
>
> G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@y...]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:22 PM
> To: 'WarriorRules@y...'
> Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> > Thanks Ewan ... my thinking was heavy towards option c with a
smattering
> of
> > terrain troops, the same formula I use in 15mm. As you well know,
I like
> to
>
> Smatterings are dangerous. I can see that enough to at least
contest one
> piece of terrain that you can't avoid fighting around; but more than
that
> risks becoming a distraction.
>
> Having said that: Dave Stiers, quintessential 25mm knight player,
uses a
> *lot* of supporting loose order regular foot. He just pretends that
it's
> LC
>
> > gather research before I pain a lot of lead (I bugged Ewan to
death on
> > Seleucids).
> >
> > G
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ewan Mcnay [mailto:ewan.mcnay@y...]
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:14 PM
> > To: 'WarriorRules@y...'
> > Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 25mm Knight Research (again)
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Greg Regets wrote:
> > > I guess what my real question was, rather than any specific army
list
> ...
> > > what "type" of supporting cast do most players think fits well
with a
> 25mm
> > > knight based army;
> > >
> > > a. Static defense, based around large close order foot units?
> >
> > No. Gives the opponents a target - especially pike/elephant
armies, which
> > may be a nemesis.
> >
> > > b. Terrain control?
> >
> > No. Your knights don't want to fight in terrain, so why are you
fighting
> > near it? [Exception for fighting above pike/elephant combos, when
you'd
> > like aas much brush as possible!]
> >
> > > c. Flexibility and maneuver, based on things like LC, LI and
skirmishing
> > > archers?
> >
> > Yes. With a knight army, the game is to run in circles until you
have
> > decided where the knights are going to hit and in what order, then
hit.
> > Hence, you want things that can run in circles and preserve space
for that
> > to happen, including by seizing space at game-start.
> >
> > All this from a man about to play in Tim's Dogs tourney and
violate all of
> > the above rules..
> >
> > Ewan
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.
>
> The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of
great
> moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. - Dante Alighieri
(1265-1321)
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[joncleaves]

<<But I've been noticing a reoccuring comment in the group, "close range
crossbow". In 7th, a unit that is two ranks of crossbow fired at full
effect at 80 paces. What have you guys been playing????>>

WRG 7.6. Foot crossbow and longbow close range 120p.

--- In WarriorRules@y..., "Steve Honeyman" <loki_in_oz@y...> wrote:

---snip---
>
> But I've been noticing a reoccuring comment in the group, "close
range crossbow". In 7th, a unit that is two ranks of crossbow fired
at full effect at 80 paces. What have you guys been playing????
>

Hey Steve!

Warrior changes the full effect range for foot CB/LB:

Salivate over 8.6 SHOOTING RANGES, because:
"Foot crossbow,longbow" effective range is now 120 paces!!!!!"
Hooray!!! Another 40 paces of bloody slaughter!!! (Perhaps.)

My 100 Years War English drool uncontrollably (guess that's another
waver test?) My Ancient Britons hope never to meet Dr Who! (guess
that's another waver test as well!!)