Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/7/2003 14:49:06 Central Standard Time,
hrisikos@... writes:
1. My "flamin bacon" regiment of incindiary pigs slams into a hapless
knight unit. At contact the knights must test waver (mounted
contacted by expendables). Let's say they pass. My regiment=4 pigs
(naptha bombing pork) @ 4 plus random factor (no tactical factors,
right?). They do say 12 or 2 cpf. This is at least 1 cpf from
incindiaries to a unit including animals. IS THIS A COMBAT CAUSED
DISORDER? I can't see logically how not, but it's not in the rules or
clarifications insofaras I can tell. I realize Jon tires of these pig
questions, but this is my only "killer" troop type.
It's combat caused, of course, and I'll add it to the list on page 31 via
clarifications.


2. Do lancers in second rank with bow get to simultaneously support
shoot and then fight at half effect HTH?
They get to do both when charging.
What happened to the rule
that only ranks after the first that are not eligible to fight in HTH
may support shoot?
I think you are thinking of 8.83, which covers bodies already in hand to
hand. The rule that applies here is 8.81.


3. Now the historical question. Where did Mongols and such hold their
lances and other stuff while firing their bows? I can imagine some
form of shield slung or strapped to the back or saddle, but can't
remember seeing illustrations or reading accounts of how they handled
a shield, bow, 9 to 12 foot lance, arrows, and the reins of the
horse. I'm just curious from a historical perspective. Not saying
they doidn't do it, just looking for some education here. Thanks.
There is a piece of tack, whose name escapes me sitting here, that holds a
lance or javelin more or less vertically - the weapon can be thrust into it and
retrieved with one hand.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Chriss]

3 questions, please. 2 rules related; one historical:

1. My "flamin bacon" regiment of incindiary pigs slams into a hapless
knight unit. At contact the knights must test waver (mounted
contacted by expendables). Let's say they pass. My regiment=4 pigs
(naptha bombing pork) @ 4 plus random factor (no tactical factors,
right?). They do say 12 or 2 cpf. This is at least 1 cpf from
incindiaries to a unit including animals. IS THIS A COMBAT CAUSED
DISORDER? I can't see logically how not, but it's not in the rules or
clarifications insofaras I can tell. I realize Jon tires of these pig
questions, but this is my only "killer" troop type.

2. Do lancers in second rank with bow get to simultaneously support
shoot and then fight at half effect HTH? What happened to the rule
that only ranks after the first that are not eligible to fight in HTH
may support shoot?

3. Now the historical question. Where did Mongols and such hold their
lances and other stuff while firing their bows? I can imagine some
form of shield slung or strapped to the back or saddle, but can't
remember seeing illustrations or reading accounts of how they handled
a shield, bow, 9 to 12 foot lance, arrows, and the reins of the
horse. I'm just curious from a historical perspective. Not saying
they doidn't do it, just looking for some education here. Thanks.


The Greek

[Bill Chriss]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> 3. Now the historical question. Where did Mongols and such hold
their
> lances and other stuff while firing their bows? I can imagine some
> form of shield slung or strapped to the back or saddle, but can't
> remember seeing illustrations or reading accounts of how they
handled
> a shield, bow, 9 to 12 foot lance, arrows, and the reins of the
> horse. I'm just curious from a historical perspective. Not saying
> they doidn't do it, just looking for some education here. Thanks.



> There is a piece of tack, whose name escapes me sitting here, that
holds a
> lance or javelin more or less vertically - the weapon can be thrust
into it and
> retrieved with one hand.
>


Fascinating. Thanks, Jon. Anyone remember the name of this device or
any further historical details? Was this method also used by
Byzantine kaballaroi similarly armed?


Greek

[Bill Low]

LOL ... I was an Explorer Scout, when I was in High School in
Massachusetts, with a mounted troop. We used to do a mounted drill with
"guidons" ... short spears with little flags ... and we had the little
"piece of tack" (I don't remember what it is called, either, but it looked
like a little leather tube with the bottom sealed off) attached to the
right stirrup. (Where you put it before you had stirrups, I don't know ...
and in deference to Scott am not gonna ask!) The guidon could more or less
stand up on its own in the little tube thingy ... but it worked better if
you either held it with one hand (think of all those Essex mounted figures)
or cradled it in an elbow when you had to use the hand for something else,
like holding the reins or lifting up a buddy on the fly. We normally held
the reins in one hand ... being High School weinies ... I'm sure that the
Mongols (like the Numidians before them, and North American Plains Indians
after) could guide their horses perfectly well with their knees and thighs.
I can't imagine that an experienced horseman would have had any trouble
managing L and B. Ah, but it brings back the memories ... all that hay and
manure!

At 04:32 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, JonCleaves@... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/7/2003 14:49:06 Central Standard Time,
> hrisikos@... writes:
>"" regiment of incindiary pigs slams into a hapless
> knight unit. At contact the knights must test waver (mounted
> contacted by expendables). Let's say they pass. My regiment=4 pigs
> (naptha bombing pork) @ 4 plus random factor (no tactical factors,
> right?). They do say 12 or 2 cpf. This is at least 1 cpf from
> incindiaries to a unit including animals. IS THIS A COMBAT CAUSED
> DISORDER? I can't see logically how not, but it's not in the rules or
> clarifications insofaras I can tell. I realize Jon tires of these pig
>"" troop type.
> It's combat caused, of course, and I'll add it to the list on page 31 via
> clarifications.
>
>
> 2. Do lancers in second rank with bow get to simultaneously support
> shoot and then fight at half effect HTH?
> They get to do both when charging.
> What happened to the rule
> that only ranks after the first that are not eligible to fight in HTH
> may support shoot?
> I think you are thinking of 8.83, which covers bodies already in hand to
> The rule that applies here is 8.81.
>
>
> 3. Now the historical question. Where did Mongols and such hold their
> lances and other stuff while firing their bows? I can imagine some
> form of shield slung or strapped to the back or saddle, but can't
> remember seeing illustrations or reading accounts of how they handled
> a shield, bow, 9 to 12 foot lance, arrows, and the reins of the
> horse. I'm just curious from a historical perspective. Not saying
> they doidn't do it, just looking for some education here. Thanks.
> There is a piece of tack, whose name escapes me sitting here, that holds a
> lance or javelin more or less vertically - the weapon can be thrust into
>it and
> retrieved with one hand.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------
From Harold William Low

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Bill,
The Strategicon states that the Kontos had a strap and that it was
important that the cavalry practice using it with the bow. The Strategicon is
Great bathroom reading!

Kelly Bathroom reader HO

hrisikos8 <hrisikos@...> wrote:
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> 3. Now the historical question. Where did Mongols and such hold
their
> lances and other stuff while firing their bows? I can imagine some
> form of shield slung or strapped to the back or saddle, but can't
> remember seeing illustrations or reading accounts of how they
handled
> a shield, bow, 9 to 12 foot lance, arrows, and the reins of the
> horse. I'm just curious from a historical perspective. Not saying
> they doidn't do it, just looking for some education here. Thanks.



> There is a piece of tack, whose name escapes me sitting here, that
holds a
> lance or javelin more or less vertically - the weapon can be thrust
into it and
> retrieved with one hand.
>


Fascinating. Thanks, Jon. Anyone remember the name of this device or
any further historical details? Was this method also used by
Byzantine kaballaroi similarly armed?


Greek


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