Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Jon

I've looked in both the rules and Q&As, and am left with a question.

A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be in
range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in range?

Thanks
Cole

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Nicholas Cioran"
<ncioran@m...> wrote:
>
> Jon
>
> I've looked in both the rules and Q&As, and am left with a
question.
>
> A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
> weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be
in
> range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
> enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in
range?
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
Bumping this one up...

Thanks
Cole

[joncleaves]

Cole, I have this one. I answer questions when I get to them in the order they
showed up in my inbox. I'll get to it when I have time.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:05:34 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Nicholas Cioran"
<ncioran@m...> wrote:
>
> Jon
>
> I've looked in both the rules and Q&As, and am left with a
question.
>
> A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
> weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be
in
> range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
> enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in
range?
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
Bumping this one up...

Thanks
Cole








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roger, sorry, didn't realize you were behind...

Cole

[joncleaves]

All the elements must be in range.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:49:11 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] A Skirmish Question


Jon

I've looked in both the rules and Q&As, and am left with a question.

A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be in
range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in range?

Thanks
Cole







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

*** Hmm.. do you mean atleast one complete file of elements must all be in
range assuming it contains all types of shooters within the unit.

I can see real problems with the statement that all elements must be in
range (or hypothetical range after enemy movement) to enter skirmish.

Maybe a better wording would be something like the following

At least one element of each type of shooter must be in range (or
hypothetical range after enemy movement) to enter skirmish.

If i have your intention wrong i apologise, but it would mean for me at
least a major rethink on skirmishers.

mark mallard

***

In a message dated 22/12/2005 06:43:40 GMT Standard Time,
rockd@... writes:

It seems logical that elements which are not in arc "out of range."
Therefore a unit which has enemy off to its side can't go into
Skirmish...

>>>
>All the elements must be in range.
>Jon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
>weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be in
>range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
>enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in range?
>>>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

It seems logical that elements which are not in arc "out of range."
Therefore a unit which has enemy off to its side can't go into
Skirmish...

>>>
>All the elements must be in range.
>Jon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>A unit entirely of shooters contains elements with two different
>weapons, say javelins and bows. Must every element of the unit be in
>range (or in range after a hypothetical enemy movement) for it to
>enter skirmish, or do only some of the elements need to be in range?
>>>

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> All the elements must be in range.

Thanks Jon.

A couple of follow ups...

Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow formation
3 deep?

If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the third
rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the skirmish "2
ranks of foot rule."

Thanks
Cole

[joncleaves]

At least one of the shortest range elements in the body must have an enemy body
in arc and in range or, if approaching second, an enemy body that could approach
into that situation.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:48:01 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> All the elements must be in range.

Thanks Jon.

A couple of follow ups...

Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow formation
3 deep?

If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the third
rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the skirmish "2
ranks of foot rule."

Thanks
Cole








Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon

I think you answered someone elses question here rather than
mine... See the answer and questions below...

Thanks
Cole

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> At least one of the shortest range elements in the body must have
an enemy body in arc and in range or, if approaching second, an
enemy body that could approach into that situation.
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:48:01 -0000
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
>
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> >
> > All the elements must be in range.
>
> Thanks Jon.
>
> A couple of follow ups...
>
> Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow
formation
> 3 deep?
>
> If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
> crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the
third
> rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the skirmish "2
> ranks of foot rule."
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[joncleaves]

Cole, that is the answer to all the questions asked in this mail. Am I missing
something?

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 05:15:29 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question


Jon

I think you answered someone elses question here rather than
mine... See the answer and questions below...

Thanks
Cole

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> At least one of the shortest range elements in the body must have
an enemy body in arc and in range or, if approaching second, an
enemy body that could approach into that situation.
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:48:01 -0000
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
>
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> >
> > All the elements must be in range.
>
> Thanks Jon.
>
> A couple of follow ups...
>
> Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow
formation
> 3 deep?
>
> If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
> crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the
third
> rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the skirmish "2
> ranks of foot rule."
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> Cole, that is the answer to all the questions asked in this mail.
Am I missing something?
>
> Jon

Uh, yeah Jon. Actually, I was confused by your non-answer as
well.

Maybe the question was too jumbled in with other stuff, so I'll ask
it again (assuming I'm understanding Cole correctly!)

Scenario for Jon:
-----------------

I have a unit of Reg LMI, 3 ranks deep (width unimportant for
question).

The first 2 ranks are armed with Crossbow.
The 3rd rank is armed with bow.

On a per element frontage, according to pg 65, 8.7, this unit
should shoot 10 figures:

4 figures per element from ranks 1 and 2 for Crossbow
2 figures per element (of a 4 figure element) for rank 3 Bow.

NOW, during a match, I elect to change formation to Skirmish
formation.

According to the first sentence after the bullets in section 8.7,
foot units may only shoot 2 ranks while in Skirmish.

Question for Jon:
------------------
Does the first sentence (after the 4 bullets) of 8.7 still apply
to foot units that can fire in THREE ranks when NOT in skirmish?
After all skirmish is a shooting formation, so it doesn't seem to
make sense that the shooting formation actually PREVENTS a ranks
worth of figures from firing.

(For what it's worth Jon, my personal reading of the rules says that
this is actually the case - the unit fires 3 ranks when not
skirmishing, and only 2 while skirmishing. But I'm interested to
hear the official reply from you. Thanks!)

Regards,
Asif Chaudhry


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 05:15:29 -0000
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
>
>
> Jon
>
> I think you answered someone elses question here rather than
> mine... See the answer and questions below...
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> >
> > At least one of the shortest range elements in the body must
have
> an enemy body in arc and in range or, if approaching second, an
> enemy body that could approach into that situation.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:48:01 -0000
> > Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
> >
> >
> > --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > All the elements must be in range.
> >
> > Thanks Jon.
> >
> > A couple of follow ups...
> >
> > Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow
> formation
> > 3 deep?
> >
> > If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
> > crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the
> third
> > rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the
skirmish "2
> > ranks of foot rule."
> >
> > Thanks
> > Cole
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[joncleaves]

It was not a 'non-answer'. I was answering what I thought was the question. I
missed the implications of the last sentence, which is why I asked Cole for
clarification. A non-answer would be no reply at all...

It would be better if questions about different rules were in different mails.


8.7 does indeed permit only 2 ranks of foot shooting once the body is in
skirmish formation, with the second rank counting at half effect. This may or
may not be different from what the body could do if not in skirmish formation.

Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:19:55 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> Cole, that is the answer to all the questions asked in this mail.
Am I missing something?
>
> Jon

Uh, yeah Jon. Actually, I was confused by your non-answer as
well.

Maybe the question was too jumbled in with other stuff, so I'll ask
it again (assuming I'm understanding Cole correctly!)

Scenario for Jon:
-----------------

I have a unit of Reg LMI, 3 ranks deep (width unimportant for
question).

The first 2 ranks are armed with Crossbow.
The 3rd rank is armed with bow.

On a per element frontage, according to pg 65, 8.7, this unit
should shoot 10 figures:

4 figures per element from ranks 1 and 2 for Crossbow
2 figures per element (of a 4 figure element) for rank 3 Bow.

NOW, during a match, I elect to change formation to Skirmish
formation.

According to the first sentence after the bullets in section 8.7,
foot units may only shoot 2 ranks while in Skirmish.

Question for Jon:
------------------
Does the first sentence (after the 4 bullets) of 8.7 still apply
to foot units that can fire in THREE ranks when NOT in skirmish?
After all skirmish is a shooting formation, so it doesn't seem to
make sense that the shooting formation actually PREVENTS a ranks
worth of figures from firing.

(For what it's worth Jon, my personal reading of the rules says that
this is actually the case - the unit fires 3 ranks when not
skirmishing, and only 2 while skirmishing. But I'm interested to
hear the official reply from you. Thanks!)

Regards,
Asif Chaudhry


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 05:15:29 -0000
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
>
>
> Jon
>
> I think you answered someone elses question here rather than
> mine... See the answer and questions below...
>
> Thanks
> Cole
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> >
> > At least one of the shortest range elements in the body must
have
> an enemy body in arc and in range or, if approaching second, an
> enemy body that could approach into that situation.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nicholas Cioran <ncioran@m...>
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:48:01 -0000
> > Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: A Skirmish Question
> >
> >
> > --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > All the elements must be in range.
> >
> > Thanks Jon.
> >
> > A couple of follow ups...
> >
> > Must all elements be able to shoot as well, i.e. a foot bow
> formation
> > 3 deep?
> >
> > If a three deep foot formation would be able to shoot (i.e. 2
> > crossbow, then a bow) and it then goes into skirmish, can the
> third
> > rank still shoot, or is it out of luck because of the
skirmish "2
> > ranks of foot rule."
> >
> > Thanks
> > Cole
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]