Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Garlic]

Hi All,

I am looking at the Spartacan List (Imperial Warrior #13) and came up with
the list below. Just looking for feedback. I may try to test drive it with
some substitute figures until I get enough experience to commit. I am
considering this as my first non-15mm army.

1x2E CinC IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
2x2E Sub General IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
4x8E ID LI S, Sh
7x4E IB 1/2 LHI and 1/2 LMI HTW, JLS, Sh
3x4E 1/2 IA LHI HTW, Sh and 1/2 ID LMI JLS, Sh
1x12E 1/6 IA LHI HTW, Sh; 1/6 IC LHI HTW, Sh and 2/3 ID LMI JLS, Sh

I was looking at it to put the four LI units forward in an aggressive screen
while I focus the remainder of troops on point(s) of vulnerability. LI would
force march to allow me more flexibility. Main concern is whether 4E
'Moog-like' gladiator units have oomph to be strike force.

Thanks,
John Garlic


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Derek Downs]

In a message dated 1/9/2006 7:18:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmgarlic@... writes:
1x2E CinC IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
2x2E Sub General IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
4x8E ID LI S, Sh
7x4E IB 1/2 LHI and 1/2 LMI HTW, JLS, Sh
3x4E 1/2 IA LHI HTW, Sh and 1/2 ID LMI JLS, Sh
1x12E 1/6 IA LHI HTW, Sh; 1/6 IC LHI HTW, Sh and 2/3 ID LMI JLS, Sh

I was looking at it to put the four LI units forward in an aggressive screen
while I focus the remainder of troops on point(s) of vulnerability. LI would
force march to allow me more flexibility. Main concern is whether 4E
'Moog-like' gladiator units have oomph to be strike force.

Thanks,
John Garlic
John is my opinion. I know I am out there when it comes to lists. But here is
my thoughts.
Drop the cav all together. If the gladiators don't do it the JLS cav isn't.
You won't need to rally anything. All your units will die to the man so there
will be no reason to rally them. Use the ID slaves with IA in the front rank to
keep the army moving forward. Then counter punch with the gladiators. I am
thinking you should have 3x32 man slave units with an element of IA in the
front.

Run your LI as either sling sh and bow or all bow. Either is better than all
Sling sh. in my opinion.

Run the light cav to keep from being outscouted.

here is a ball park list the way i was looking at it just for a different
view of it
good luck

Derekcus

Thoughts on a list

cnc LHI JLS LTS SH IB + 5 132
sub 62 LHI HTW JLS SH IB 80
12 LC JLS SH IC 97
16 LI B 1/2 SH ID 49
16 LI B 1/2 SH ID 49
16 LI B ID 41
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
24 MI LTS SH IC 97
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
--- 9 LMI HTW SH IA
9 LMI JLS SH ID
18 LMI IPW IE 97
--- 9 LMI HTW SH IA
9 LMI JLS SH ID
18 LMI IPW IE 97


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Garlic]

Derekcus,

Thanks for the feedback. I like your list and will 'steal' some ideas from
it. You don't think those MI JLS guys would be too big of a weakness
(attracting enemy strike force like a magnet)? I do really like the LI idea of
one
rank S, Sh and one rank B no Sh. I agree on the gladiators. They're the whole
reason for this list, I was just concerned about whether a 4E unit would have
the ability to survive the missiles since this is so light in missile
capability. Of course you get a CinC who's very photogenic and tridents too -
tres
kewl!

Thanks,
John

In a message dated 1/9/2006 8:21:28 PM Central Standard Time,
darnd022263@... writes:
In a message dated 1/9/2006 7:18:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmgarlic@... writes:
1x2E CinC IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
2x2E Sub General IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
4x8E ID LI S, Sh
7x4E IB 1/2 LHI and 1/2 LMI HTW, JLS, Sh
3x4E 1/2 IA LHI HTW, Sh and 1/2 ID LMI JLS, Sh
1x12E 1/6 IA LHI HTW, Sh; 1/6 IC LHI HTW, Sh and 2/3 ID LMI JLS, Sh

I was looking at it to put the four LI units forward in an aggressive screen
while I focus the remainder of troops on point(s) of vulnerability. LI would
force march to allow me more flexibility. Main concern is whether 4E
'Moog-like' gladiator units have oomph to be strike force.

Thanks,
John Garlic
John is my opinion. I know I am out there when it comes to lists. But here is
my thoughts.
Drop the cav all together. If the gladiators don't do it the JLS cav isn't.
You won't need to rally anything. All your units will die to the man so there
will be no reason to rally them. Use the ID slaves with IA in the front rank
to
keep the army moving forward. Then counter punch with the gladiators. I am
thinking you should have 3x32 man slave units with an element of IA in the
front.

Run your LI as either sling sh and bow or all bow. Either is better than all
Sling sh. in my opinion.

Run the light cav to keep from being outscouted.

here is a ball park list the way i was looking at it just for a different
view of it
good luck

Derekcus

Thoughts on a list

cnc LHI JLS LTS SH IB + 5 132
sub 62 LHI HTW JLS SH IB 80
12 LC JLS SH IC 97
16 LI B 1/2 SH ID 49
16 LI B 1/2 SH ID 49
16 LI B ID 41
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
12 LHI/LMI HTW JLS SH IB 97
24 MI LTS SH IC 97
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
32 MI JLS SH ID 4 IA 93
--- 9 LMI HTW SH IA
9 LMI JLS SH ID
18 LMI IPW IE 97
--- 9 LMI HTW SH IA
9 LMI JLS SH ID
18 LMI IPW IE 97


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Kaeser]

John,

Just a few thoughts from someone who has put this list together a few times
and would love to have them in 25mm.

My opinions:

Take very few of the HC/MC - I'd rather have my generals in 2E banzai units to
finish up in the later rounds and as LHI.

I took a few MI LTS,Sh units to bog up the middle and lend some density to my
army.

Kept my gladiators in high morale LHI or LMI HTW,Sh units. some 2E Ir B LHI
and a few 6E Ir B LMI HTW,Sh units.

My scum were Ir A/Ir D LMI in 12E units with (I think from my limited memory
at this moment) 2E Ir A LMI Jls,Sh & 2E Ir C LMI Jls,Sh & 8E Ir D LMI IPW.
Unweildy, but tough in a woods.

I did take the LC for the scouting points, but would either flank march them
or keep them out of trouble in the rear.

Just my thoughts on it.

Todd K


jmgarlic@... wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking at the Spartacan List (Imperial Warrior #13) and came up with
the list below. Just looking for feedback. I may try to test drive it with
some substitute figures until I get enough experience to commit. I am
considering this as my first non-15mm army.

1x2E CinC IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
2x2E Sub General IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
4x8E ID LI S, Sh
7x4E IB 1/2 LHI and 1/2 LMI HTW, JLS, Sh
3x4E 1/2 IA LHI HTW, Sh and 1/2 ID LMI JLS, Sh
1x12E 1/6 IA LHI HTW, Sh; 1/6 IC LHI HTW, Sh and 2/3 ID LMI JLS, Sh

I was looking at it to put the four LI units forward in an aggressive screen
while I focus the remainder of troops on point(s) of vulnerability. LI would
force march to allow me more flexibility. Main concern is whether 4E
'Moog-like' gladiator units have oomph to be strike force.

Thanks,
John Garlic


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Garlic]

HI Todd and Derekcus,

I notice you both recommend the large units of MI with JLS. I have only
tried them a couple times and they seemed to get wasted too easily. Perhaps my
units weren't large enough, so I will try that. I do realize that the Spartacan
list I had put together really didn't have much of a 'line' to serve as an
anchor, so perhaps that's a role these really big JLS units could fill. Just
gotta keep them from getting smacked too hard. It's an issue I have tried
(unsuccessfully) to figure out with my Hebrews, so maybe they'll benefit from
this
discussion as well.

John Garlic

In a message dated 1/10/2006 11:25:13 AM Central Standard Time,
hailkaeser@... writes:
Just a few thoughts from someone who has put this list together a few times
and would love to have them in 25mm.

My opinions:

Take very few of the HC/MC - I'd rather have my generals in 2E banzai units
to finish up in the later rounds and as LHI.

I took a few MI LTS,Sh units to bog up the middle and lend some density to
my army.

Kept my gladiators in high morale LHI or LMI HTW,Sh units. some 2E Ir B
LHI and a few 6E Ir B LMI HTW,Sh units.

My scum were Ir A/Ir D LMI in 12E units with (I think from my limited
memory at this moment) 2E Ir A LMI Jls,Sh & 2E Ir C LMI Jls,Sh & 8E Ir D LMI
IPW.
Unweildy, but tough in a woods.

I did take the LC for the scouting points, but would either flank march
them or keep them out of trouble in the rear.

Just my thoughts on it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Kaeser]

John,

Found the basis for the 1200 point list that can be added on - haven't
finished the 1600 point one yet.

Here it is in elements. Obviously you could get another big unit of LTS (I
would suggest such) and others of your choice and flavor. Just my thoughts -
hope it helps.

Todd K

Spartacan
1214 points - scouting 24


C-in-C 2E Ir B LHI HTW,Jls,Sh (135)
Sub 2E Ir B LHI HTW,Jls,Sh (85)
6E Mounted Ex-Slaves Ir C LC Jls,Sh (97)
12E Ex-Slaves Ir C MI LTS,Sh (169)
12E Ex-Slaves IrA/D LMI Jls,Sh/IPW (133)
12E Ex-Slaves IrA/D LMI Jls,Sh/IPW (133)
6E Ex-Gladiators Ir B LMI HTW,Jls,Sh (115)
6E Ex-Gladiators Ir B LMI HTW,Jls,Sh (115)
2E Ex-Gladiators Ir B LHI HTW,Jls,Sh (67)
2E Ex-Gladiators Ir B LHI HTW,Jls,Sh (67)
6E Shepherd Skirmishers Ir D LI S,Sh (49)
6E Shepherd Skirmishers Ir D LI S,Sh (49)


jmgarlic@... wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking at the Spartacan List (Imperial Warrior #13) and came up with
the list below. Just looking for feedback. I may try to test drive it with
some substitute figures until I get enough experience to commit. I am
considering this as my first non-15mm army.

1x2E CinC IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
2x2E Sub General IB 1/2 HC and 1/2 MC JLS, Sh
4x8E ID LI S, Sh
7x4E IB 1/2 LHI and 1/2 LMI HTW, JLS, Sh
3x4E 1/2 IA LHI HTW, Sh and 1/2 ID LMI JLS, Sh
1x12E 1/6 IA LHI HTW, Sh; 1/6 IC LHI HTW, Sh and 2/3 ID LMI JLS, Sh

I was looking at it to put the four LI units forward in an aggressive screen
while I focus the remainder of troops on point(s) of vulnerability. LI would
force march to allow me more flexibility. Main concern is whether 4E
'Moog-like' gladiator units have oomph to be strike force.

Thanks,
John Garlic


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg Regets]

Play the MI units very deep and by default, not very wide. It will be
difficult to get 3CPF on them when they are deployed that way, and
give you more shots at doing the Irregular A up roll thing.

g



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, jmgarlic@a... wrote:
>
> HI Todd and Derekcus,
>
> I notice you both recommend the large units of MI with JLS. I have
only
> tried them a couple times and they seemed to get wasted too
easily. Perhaps my
> units weren't large enough, so I will try that. I do realize that
the Spartacan
> list I had put together really didn't have much of a 'line' to
serve as an
> anchor, so perhaps that's a role these really big JLS units could
fill. Just
> gotta keep them from getting smacked too hard. It's an issue I
have tried
> (unsuccessfully) to figure out with my Hebrews, so maybe they'll
benefit from this
> discussion as well.
>
> John Garlic
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2006 11:25:13 AM Central Standard Time,
> hailkaeser@y... writes:
> Just a few thoughts from someone who has put this list together a
few times
> and would love to have them in 25mm.
>
> My opinions:
>
> Take very few of the HC/MC - I'd rather have my generals in 2E
banzai units
> to finish up in the later rounds and as LHI.
>
> I took a few MI LTS,Sh units to bog up the middle and lend some
density to
> my army.
>
> Kept my gladiators in high morale LHI or LMI HTW,Sh units. some
2E Ir B
> LHI and a few 6E Ir B LMI HTW,Sh units.
>
> My scum were Ir A/Ir D LMI in 12E units with (I think from my
limited
> memory at this moment) 2E Ir A LMI Jls,Sh & 2E Ir C LMI Jls,Sh & 8E
Ir D LMI IPW.
> Unweildy, but tough in a woods.
>
> I did take the LC for the scouting points, but would either flank
march
> them or keep them out of trouble in the rear.
>
> Just my thoughts on it.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 11/01/2006 09:00:46 GMT Standard Time,
geoffcrick@... writes:

Yes, if you have a 48 man unit and run it 8 wide by 6 ranks deep you
can just avoid being pushed back by a six man cavalry unit with
lance ( 6 at 7 = 30 - unit counts as 32 ).
Agreed this is not 3cpf so they are not routed but, a jls armed foot
unit that is disordered is a sad thing - sadder in fact than a
steady one - go figure.
** They are not disordered either in your example.

mark mallard

**



Every lance armed cavalryman getting to fight 1.5 ranks has
effectively killed the jls armed troop type. Except if you have
irreg A I suppose but....irreg A is for pussies :)



Cheers.............Geoff





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, if you have a 48 man unit and run it 8 wide by 6 ranks deep you
can just avoid being pushed back by a six man cavalry unit with
lance ( 6 at 7 = 30 - unit counts as 32 ).
Agreed this is not 3cpf so they are not routed but, a jls armed foot
unit that is disordered is a sad thing - sadder in fact than a
steady one - go figure.
Every lance armed cavalryman getting to fight 1.5 ranks has
effectively killed the jls armed troop type. Except if you have
irreg A I suppose but....irreg A is for pussies :)



Cheers.............Geoff



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets"
<greg.regets@g...> wrote:
>
> Play the MI units very deep and by default, not very wide. It will
be
> difficult to get 3CPF on them when they are deployed that way, and
> give you more shots at doing the Irregular A up roll thing.
>
> g
>
>
>
>

[Greg Regets]

Don't you mean a six-man cavalry unit with an up roll ... and
assuming the JLS unit doesn't also roll up ... and assuming the
cavalry wasn't previously shot for 2CPF and is coming in tired ...
and assuming the JLS player doesn't have something coming in to mop
up the cavalry in the next bound. Quite a few assumptions here. ;-)

Like nearly all troop types, these guys work well as part of a combat
team, with a player willing to give them a job that they can do
well ... and work poorly, otherwise.

Just my opinion ... g


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "siwardrocks" <geoffcrick@o...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, if you have a 48 man unit and run it 8 wide by 6 ranks deep
you
> can just avoid being pushed back by a six man cavalry unit with
> lance ( 6 at 7 = 30 - unit counts as 32 ).
> Agreed this is not 3cpf so they are not routed but, a jls armed
foot
> unit that is disordered is a sad thing - sadder in fact than a
> steady one - go figure.
> Every lance armed cavalryman getting to fight 1.5 ranks has
> effectively killed the jls armed troop type. Except if you have
> irreg A I suppose but....irreg A is for pussies
>
>
>
> Cheers.............Geoff
>
>
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets"
> <greg.regets@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Play the MI units very deep and by default, not very wide. It
will
> be
> > difficult to get 3CPF on them when they are deployed that way,
and
> > give you more shots at doing the Irregular A up roll thing.
> >
> > g
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[John Garlic]

Hello Todd,

Thanks for the suggestions Todd. Actually I messed with list and
semi-finalized what I wanna test out next time I game. I am still unsure of the
big
LTS units, but did decide to try three of the 8E JLS units per Derek's
suggestion. I also dismounted and reduced generals to two and added the LC for
scouting. I may look at 48 man unit, but haven't had units of those size since
hoplites many seasons ago.

I would also like to thank Mark Stone for his long piece posted a few
days back. I am sure it is probably too late, but a suggestion for Jon might be
to published one or two 'tactical' articles in the rulebook, especially for
newbies or people looking to try out new ideas. Mark's last piece was a great
start as was the skirmisher doctrine paper. It might also be a possibility for
Warrior Battles to tie a tactical discussion into a particular battle where
suitable. I say this because many years ago (couple decades now) when I began
playing Squad Leader there were several pages discussing tactics and
city-fighting at the back. They were excellent reading and the ideas have stood
the
test of time. There have been some excellent posts on tactics that would be
great if brought together in one place. I know they are on the web, but I still
have this long-held affinity for bound paper.

John Garlic

In a message dated 1/15/2006 7:47:18 AM Central Standard Time,
hailkaeser@... writes:
John,

My large units are armed with LTS - so that cav can't role over them. The
LMI are also in 36 man Jls/IPW units to hold or attack in terrain. In 1600
points I would have at least 2 48 man LTS units to take up space and force the
issue. They could always contract to allow the 6 man LHI HTW units through the
gaps to take on pike or other foot that your 48 man unit is afraid of. Don't
forget that there are also 18 man LMI HTW units that are also pretty scary.
Obviously, vs. a knight army this list has some major disadvantages, but the
big units of LTS help in that situation w/ lots of terrain for all of your
loose LMI or LHI HTW and your big blocks of LMI Jls/IPW.

Todd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Kaeser]

John,

My large units are armed with LTS - so that cav can't role over them. The LMI
are also in 36 man Jls/IPW units to hold or attack in terrain. In 1600 points I
would have at least 2 48 man LTS units to take up space and force the issue.
They could always contract to allow the 6 man LHI HTW units through the gaps to
take on pike or other foot that your 48 man unit is afraid of. Don't forget
that there are also 18 man LMI HTW units that are also pretty scary. Obviously,
vs. a knight army this list has some major disadvantages, but the big units of
LTS help in that situation w/ lots of terrain for all of your loose LMI or LHI
HTW and your big blocks of LMI Jls/IPW.

Todd

jmgarlic@... wrote:
HI Todd and Derekcus,

I notice you both recommend the large units of MI with JLS. I have only
tried them a couple times and they seemed to get wasted too easily. Perhaps my
units weren't large enough, so I will try that. I do realize that the Spartacan
list I had put together really didn't have much of a 'line' to serve as an
anchor, so perhaps that's a role these really big JLS units could fill. Just
gotta keep them from getting smacked too hard. It's an issue I have tried
(unsuccessfully) to figure out with my Hebrews, so maybe they'll benefit from
this
discussion as well.

John Garlic

In a message dated 1/10/2006 11:25:13 AM Central Standard Time,
hailkaeser@... writes:
Just a few thoughts from someone who has put this list together a few times
and would love to have them in 25mm.

My opinions:

Take very few of the HC/MC - I'd rather have my generals in 2E banzai units
to finish up in the later rounds and as LHI.

I took a few MI LTS,Sh units to bog up the middle and lend some density to
my army.

Kept my gladiators in high morale LHI or LMI HTW,Sh units. some 2E Ir B
LHI and a few 6E Ir B LMI HTW,Sh units.

My scum were Ir A/Ir D LMI in 12E units with (I think from my limited
memory at this moment) 2E Ir A LMI Jls,Sh & 2E Ir C LMI Jls,Sh & 8E Ir D LMI
IPW.
Unweildy, but tough in a woods.

I did take the LC for the scouting points, but would either flank march
them or keep them out of trouble in the rear.

Just my thoughts on it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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