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Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
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Todd Schneider
Centurion
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 904
Location: Kansas City
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 Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: RE: Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint |
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You didn’t have to go impetuous because you were already getting the +2 for
mounted charging disordered foot. Because the disordered foot and Impetuous
+2 are on the same line, they aren’t cumulative, so either way you already
had the +2 and going impetuous was just wasting a couple more fatigue.
It’s one thing I miss all the time as well…
Todd
_____
From: Scott & Tracie McCoppin [mailto:sctrac@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:03 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
First of all, I want to take a moment to say that, when I re-read my post it
was far more self-congratulatory sounding than intended - it was a battle
fraught with many mistakes, etc. and was really only an attempt to explain
how I was beginning to understand what he meant and agree with it in light
of my small amount of experience.
Now then, why I charged impetuously..probably because it was the best and
quickest way to guarantee that I would punch a hole in his line. I was
willing to tire out a unit of LC to insure that the hole was there pour
through. He had a flank march arrive two bounds before and I was trying to
force the issue before he did. When I looked at the numbers, if I had
rolled down or he rolled up, then there would have been the possibility of
just breaking off. By causing him to rout, there was a hole there 6 E wide
and I had 8 E of Cav (in three units) sitting there ready to move through -
not to mention the waver tests caused by the rout and unease caused by the
formed units in his flank or rear.
Maybe an incorrect assessment made by an inexperience player, but it worked.
Opinions?
-----Original Message-----
From: CHRIS BUMP [mailto:cncbump@...]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:38 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
The tide turner was
the impetuous Skythian LC (JLS, B) charge into his shaken MI P that created
a hole for the rest of the cavalry to pour through.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Why on earth would you declare your cav impetuous versus a shaken infantry
body?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott & Tracie McCoppin
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
" I've won many, many games without ever issuing a prompt -- even
when first charge opportunities were not taken. If a person plays
with the intent of avoiding prompted charges but, instead, working to
create situations where prompts won't be needed, he becomes a better
player. An occasional prompt might be needed, but once a player has
this part of the game down, he really gets to be very dangerous."
How true I am finding that to be.
My last battle was won with a more "negative" army vs. what is considered
by
many to be an army with more positives than negatives - Late Ach. Persian
vs. Alexandrian Macedonian. In this case the negatives for the Persians
are
the loads of D class Inf vs his C and B class MI P Sh and LMI (mostly JLS
LTS Sh). and the mostly shieldless HC w/ JLS (1/4 are armed w/ B as well)
vs
his HC L. The key to this victory was to be patient and try to get my LC
B
in a position to slow him down and pin him in some cases while waiting to
hit with my HC when the time was right. The best (and quite frankly only)
shock troop at my disposal were Scythed Chariots which went on a flank
march
with the rest of their command and never showed up..sigh.
I won that battle by placing two 4e LC w/ JLS B supporting my 4 units of
2E
HC JLS (1/2 also B armed in that command) and placed them on a probe order
with the CnC. I just waited until an opportunity arose that allowed me to
charge without a prompt (I actually didn't issue a prompt the entire
battle
which lasted 10 bounds before he threw in the towel). The tide turner was
the impetuous Skythian LC (JLS, B) charge into his shaken MI P that
created
a hole for the rest of the cavalry to pour through.
I agree with an earlier post in that I was forced to figure out what I
could
do with a "poorer" troop type and it does make you play smarter. When you
look on paper at the matchup of my best vs his best in each category, he
had
the definite edge - so there weren't any all-out assaults planned on my
part
and I am forced to finesse more - planning for the second and third bounds
of contact, etc.
While I don't claim to be good at this game [yet  ], playing with an
"inferior" army forces one to learn the subtleties in order to have a
chance
and I believe that when I switch to a better quality (well better overall
morale and balanced) army I will play that much smarter.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Finding new and interesting ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of Victory almost every game! |
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Chris Damour
Legionary
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 444
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: RE: Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint |
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Scott,
At least to me you did not come across as "self-congratulatory".
What Chris Bump was talking about with his question (paraphrased) "Why did
your Skythian LC impetuously charge shaken pike?" is that the "+2" for
impetuousity is on the same line as the "+2" for "mounted fighting
disordered foot" and you do NOT get to count both and he was wondering why
you needlessly gave your unit an additional fatigue. Assuming that you
were NOT hitting him in the shieldless flank (and your battle report does
not read that way to me) then the factor should be: 3 (other cavalry vs
MI) +1 (JLS) +1 (charging) +2 (impetuous OR mounted vs disordered foot) =
7.
Now there are times that you would definately want to charge
impetuously. For example, if you know that you are going to rout or
breakthrough this unit and then convert charge into the shieldless flank
of the SHK behind them you may want the +2 factor against the knights.
However, you need to remember that NONIMPETUOUS pursuers get normal charge
responces. If you are impetuous your only option is to stand there and
take it, so be aware of what may happen. Capice?
On Sat, 22 May 2004, Scott & Tracie McCoppin wrote:
> First of all, I want to take a moment to say that, when I re-read my post it
> was far more self-congratulatory sounding than intended - it was a battle
> fraught with many mistakes, etc. and was really only an attempt to explain
> how I was beginning to understand what he meant and agree with it in light
> of my small amount of experience.
>
> Now then, why I charged impetuously..probably because it was the best and
> quickest way to guarantee that I would punch a hole in his line. I was
> willing to tire out a unit of LC to insure that the hole was there pour
> through. He had a flank march arrive two bounds before and I was trying to
> force the issue before he did. When I looked at the numbers, if I had
> rolled down or he rolled up, then there would have been the possibility of
> just breaking off. By causing him to rout, there was a hole there 6 E wide
> and I had 8 E of Cav (in three units) sitting there ready to move through -
> not to mention the waver tests caused by the rout and unease caused by the
> formed units in his flank or rear.
>
> Maybe an incorrect assessment made by an inexperience player, but it worked.
> Opinions?
--
Christopher Damour
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Legionary
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: RE: Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint |
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Got it. Thanks.
Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Schneider [mailto:thresh1642@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:14 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
You didn't have to go impetuous because you were already getting the +2 for
mounted charging disordered foot. Because the disordered foot and Impetuous
+2 are on the same line, they aren't cumulative, so either way you already
had the +2 and going impetuous was just wasting a couple more fatigue.
It's one thing I miss all the time as well...
Todd
_____
From: Scott & Tracie McCoppin [mailto:sctrac@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:03 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
First of all, I want to take a moment to say that, when I re-read my post it
was far more self-congratulatory sounding than intended - it was a battle
fraught with many mistakes, etc. and was really only an attempt to explain
how I was beginning to understand what he meant and agree with it in light
of my small amount of experience.
Now then, why I charged impetuously..probably because it was the best and
quickest way to guarantee that I would punch a hole in his line. I was
willing to tire out a unit of LC to insure that the hole was there pour
through. He had a flank march arrive two bounds before and I was trying to
force the issue before he did. When I looked at the numbers, if I had
rolled down or he rolled up, then there would have been the possibility of
just breaking off. By causing him to rout, there was a hole there 6 E wide
and I had 8 E of Cav (in three units) sitting there ready to move through -
not to mention the waver tests caused by the rout and unease caused by the
formed units in his flank or rear.
Maybe an incorrect assessment made by an inexperience player, but it worked.
Opinions?
-----Original Message-----
From: CHRIS BUMP [mailto:cncbump@...]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:38 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
The tide turner was
the impetuous Skythian LC (JLS, B) charge into his shaken MI P that created
a hole for the rest of the cavalry to pour through.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Why on earth would you declare your cav impetuous versus a shaken infantry
body?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott & Tracie McCoppin
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WarriorRules] Re: Army Negatives as a viewpoint
" I've won many, many games without ever issuing a prompt -- even
when first charge opportunities were not taken. If a person plays
with the intent of avoiding prompted charges but, instead, working to
create situations where prompts won't be needed, he becomes a better
player. An occasional prompt might be needed, but once a player has
this part of the game down, he really gets to be very dangerous."
How true I am finding that to be.
My last battle was won with a more "negative" army vs. what is considered
by
many to be an army with more positives than negatives - Late Ach. Persian
vs. Alexandrian Macedonian. In this case the negatives for the Persians
are
the loads of D class Inf vs his C and B class MI P Sh and LMI (mostly JLS
LTS Sh). and the mostly shieldless HC w/ JLS (1/4 are armed w/ B as well)
vs
his HC L. The key to this victory was to be patient and try to get my LC
B
in a position to slow him down and pin him in some cases while waiting to
hit with my HC when the time was right. The best (and quite frankly only)
shock troop at my disposal were Scythed Chariots which went on a flank
march
with the rest of their command and never showed up..sigh.
I won that battle by placing two 4e LC w/ JLS B supporting my 4 units of
2E
HC JLS (1/2 also B armed in that command) and placed them on a probe order
with the CnC. I just waited until an opportunity arose that allowed me to
charge without a prompt (I actually didn't issue a prompt the entire
battle
which lasted 10 bounds before he threw in the towel). The tide turner was
the impetuous Skythian LC (JLS, B) charge into his shaken MI P that
created
a hole for the rest of the cavalry to pour through.
I agree with an earlier post in that I was forced to figure out what I
could
do with a "poorer" troop type and it does make you play smarter. When you
look on paper at the matchup of my best vs his best in each category, he
had
the definite edge - so there weren't any all-out assaults planned on my
part
and I am forced to finesse more - planning for the second and third bounds
of contact, etc.
While I don't claim to be good at this game [yet ], playing with an
"inferior" army forces one to learn the subtleties in order to have a
chance
and I believe that when I switch to a better quality (well better overall
morale and balanced) army I will play that much smarter.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W
arriorRules/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W
arriorRules/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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