Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Harlan Garrett]

Hello,
 
Enough talk about tweaking the rules and whether or not there should be an comma between then and now.
 
Lets discuss different method people take to counter chariots.  I have never faced chariots, and would like to increase my gamesmanship on effectively countering these two and four wheeled terrors.  What are your recommendations?
 
Harlan D. Garrett
(817) 608-0727 (Home)
(972) 313-1987 (Office)
(817) 652-1821 (Home Facsimile)
(972) 313-1984 (Office Facsimile)
HarlanG@AirMail.Net
HGarrett@ChaparralMachinery.Com

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[Phil Gardocki]

    There is a good reason you don't have a lot of skill in countering chariots.  They almost never get played.  The old 1 driver and 1 warrior are extremely vulnerable to cavalry and are just handing a rout to your opponent.  Though a large block of light chariots in skirmish are very resistant to missile fire, but are lucky to do any damage in return.
    The Indian chariots, with 6 crew, are tough, but have been emasculated in latter editions of Rev 7, and can be fought with normal troops and tactics.
    So the only chariots of any consequence are scythed.  Most people offer a light cavalry unit for them to chase until the chariot becomes exhausted.
 
Philip Gardocki
 
(610) 495-7923 (answering machine)(610) 495 8937When the avalanche falls, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

-----Original Message-----From: Harlan D. Garrett <harlang@airmail.net>To: E-mail List <WarriorRules@egroups.com>Date: Thursday, July 06, 2000 1:02 AMSubject: [WarriorRules] Chariots
Hello,
 
Enough talk about tweaking the rules and whether or not there should be an comma between then and now.
 
Lets discuss different method people take to counter chariots.  I have never faced chariots, and would like to increase my gamesmanship on effectively countering these two and four wheeled terrors.  What are your recommendations?
 
Harlan D. Garrett
(817) 608-0727 (Home)
(972) 313-1987 (Office)
(817) 652-1821 (Home Facsimile)
(972) 313-1984 (Office Facsimile)
HarlanG@AirMail.Net
HGarrett@ChaparralMachinery.ComTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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[Ewan McNay]

On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Philip Gardocki wrote:

> There is a good reason you don't have a lot of skill in countering
chariots. They almost never get played. The old 1 driver and 1 warrior
are extremely vulnerable to cavalry and are just handing a rout to your
opponent. Though a large block of light chariots in skirmish are very
resistant to missile fire, but are lucky to do any damage in return.

We agree that chariots are pretty tough to use effectively.
However, I think that you overstate their uselessness. They're made
much better if they have attached rear ranks of infantry (a la Han); but
even without that advantage, they can be useful. Their advantages are:
(i) large numbers of men/horses fighting per element frontage, (ii)
creation of unease, (iii) easier to break through with if desired, (iv)
some missile fire even when charging. Take a 4hHCh, 2 crew (1 LTS, 1 B)
backed by LMI JLS, Sh: that gives you a total of 8 fighting men *and* a -1
to the opposition, as well as 2 bowfire coming in.

Now, the biggest problem is that chariot horses only fight when
going forward. Hence, if sent against infantry, they work best if
the infantry is (or becomes) unsteady, or is irregular loose. They *are*
susceptible to enemy mounted, but everything has a flaw. The other big
problem (for me) is their unwieldiness and cost; for similar negatives you
can get an elephant, which I prefer. However, chariots are often regular,
which makes them a lot more useful (remember to take a general!)

All of the above really relates to HCh. 2hLCh I do believe to be
pretty useless; but 4HLCh are *superb* anti-LMI (e.g. Aztec, Inca, as well
as their irregular cousins) troops. That's because they can evade at
will, but *also* charge (causing wavers) at will, and - if they lose -
break off at will without being pursued. They're pretty rare beasts, but
in the UK team comp. a few years back, Reigate took several Syracusan
armies specifically to deal with the expected (and fielded) MK team of
Aztecs.

Incidentally, chariots are also often very cheap per figure from a
CPF point of view. This makes them useful as pinning troops -send in a
column of chariots at one end of a large unit, and it will be bulky enough
to stuck even if it doesn't win, allowing you to hit the rest of the unit
next time. Old Elamites work very well doing this - units of 3 chariots
backed up by masses of cheap reg LMI B and a few Guti units to give punch.
Serious firepower, too, with 3B in each chariot.

> So the only chariots of any consequence are scythed. Most people
offer a light cavalry unit for them to chase until the chariot becomes
exhausted.

'Most'? Well, maybe; but usually the guy with the scythes has 4-6 such
chariots, and is certainly quite happy to get rid of all the opposing LC
in such a manner (because the scythe armies tend to be slow and ponderous,
vulnerable to LC pinning).

I've writen (i) too much, and (ii) more about how to use Ch than
how to defeat them - but I think that the 'they're useless' p.o.v. is a
rather extreme one.

Ewan


--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.
(203) 432-7005

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 6:42:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
JonBecker@... writes:

> Hello Jon!
>
> Chariots questions and confirmations...take your time! I've done the
> research just want to make sure I have it right...>>

I am answering your questions on the Warrior group as well, Jon, because I think
others might benefit from the answers. Would you ask future questions here?
You can send the Fanwar stuff directly to me or on the FanWar group, but I'd
like to always answer Warrior and Campaign Warrior questions here.

>
> * Hvy and Lgt Chariot are same basic cost 12 REG, 10 IRR? >>

Kinda true. That is the base cost for chariots and then you add crew and horses
(and with expendables, scythes) but what differentiates light and heavy is the
number of crewmen. More than one armed = heavy. Note that light v heavy has
nothing to do with the number of horses...

< And you
> don't pay command pts?>>

You do for a chariot unit. Not for an expendable chariot.


> * Scythed only available if army list says so?>>

Yes.


> * Chariots are 1EU? Not in War because 1EU is only a FanWar Rule? >>

Chariots are not 1EU - that is indeed a FanWar rule. There can be one element
BODIES of expendable chariots.

<< In
> War, they are taken in normal multi-element units, minimum of 2 elements?>>

Correct.

> * Takes casualties as 5 figs, regardless of type, crew count (armed or
> not), or number of horses - CORRECT?>>

Correct.

>
> Fighting figures...is this accurate?
> * a LCh with 2 horses and 1 unarmed crew and 1 crew armed with JLS.
> If charging (etc.)...
> fights as 2 figs of Ch hrs. at the applicable weapon factor, AND
> fights as 1 fig "other cav" with JLS. CORRECT?>>

No, crew fights as armed crew with JLS.

> (Or is it "other inf" not "other cav"?)>>

Again, armed crew. It's there...lol

>
> * a HCh with 4 horses and 1 unarmed crew and 2 crew armed with JLS.
> If charging (etc.)...
> fights as 4 figs of Ch hrs. at the applicable weapon factor, AND
> fights as 2 fig "other cav" with JLS. CORRECT?
> (Or is it "other inf" not "other cav"?)>>

Armed crew.

> * And shooting is clear...a HCh with 4 horses and 1 unarmed crew and 2
> crew armed with BOW. Shoots as 3 figs (1 BOW fig as 2 shooting figs, other
> BOW fig as 1 shooting fig).>>

Correct.


<<A REG Chariot can only charge impetuous if its general is within 240 and
declares a charge. Just like any other MOUNTED REG troop when it comes to
impetuous charges - CORRECT?>>

Any general in line of command, correct.


>
> * Lastly, looks like chariot based armies are tough armies to win
> with. I'd like to see a chariot army from the Biblical list in action since
> I've acquired a boat load of New Kingdom Egyptians figures. I need a
> clinic, any chance we could arrange one between you and I
> during the weekend
> of call to arms? I'm off all day that Friday?>>

I am at a conference that morning and then headed for the hotel Friday about
1400. I will have an army containing chariots ready at a point value of your
choice. We can play both before and after round one.

Jon