Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Greg Regets]

I would be inclined to take these as;

8 Fig, Reg C LHI, 2HCT, CB, Sh

At that price, I would be buying very few units, no more than two.

The primary function for these units would be to operate with the
SHK, to offer shooting potential and subsequent bound flank combat
potential. If you are fortunate to get a good shot in before a knight
on knight battle, this will make a world of difference in what is
normally a "stick". Effective prep on a EHK or HK unit, will all but
assure a break on contact with your SHK.

You could save eight points by not arming the back rank with 2HCT,
but I have found this to be points well spent. The normal combat
situation for these units is on the flank, and in that instance,
expanding out is useful.

The big advantages of these units is that they march at the same
speed as your knights. As such, they operate very effectively if your
stategy is to hold the knights in reserve, rather than lead with
them. Also, if you use these as a knight attack component, they have
the advantage of pinning after march, and approaching to short range
shooting next bound.

As far as elephants, avoid them like the plague. That is what Moogs
are for. ;-)

As a matter of fact, avoid any waver with these that you can. They
are expensive C's. If you fail a test, you might as well be armed
with IPW for all the good your fancy weapons will do you.

Take care ... g

[Bill Chriss]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets" <gar@t...> wrote:
> I would be inclined to take these as;
>
> 8 Fig, Reg C LHI, 2HCT, CB, Sh
>
> At that price, I would be buying very few units, no more than two.
>
> The primary function for these units would be to operate with the
> SHK, to offer shooting potential and subsequent bound flank combat
> potential. If you are fortunate to get a good shot in before a
knight
> on knight battle, this will make a world of difference in what is
> normally a "stick". Effective prep on a EHK or HK unit, will all
but
> assure a break on contact with your SHK.
>
> You could save eight points by not arming the back rank with 2HCT,
> but I have found this to be points well spent. The normal combat
> situation for these units is on the flank, and in that instance,
> expanding out is useful.
>
> The big advantages of these units is that they march at the same
> speed as your knights. As such, they operate very effectively if
your
> stategy is to hold the knights in reserve, rather than lead with
> them. Also, if you use these as a knight attack component, they
have
> the advantage of pinning after march, and approaching to short
range
> shooting next bound.
>
> As far as elephants, avoid them like the plague. That is what Moogs
> are for.
>
> As a matter of fact, avoid any waver with these that you can. They
> are expensive C's. If you fail a test, you might as well be armed
> with IPW for all the good your fancy weapons will do you.
>
> Take care ... g


Thanks Greg, this is the analysis I was looking for...but... how
about taking them as 4E, front rank LHI, JLS, Sh and back rank LMI,
Jls, Sh? Then I can use them as medieval peltasts. Or would front
rank LTS be better. If all JLS, put them in skirmish and they're just
about unshootable (especially if you up armor the back rank to LHI).
Also well-suited to kill Elephants and control any difficult terrain.
How about that? Medieval Peltasts?


Greek

[Greg Regets]

LHI/LMI JLS Sh vs. elephants ... different troop type, same
principle. You will have a waver test, and will probably be uneasy,
unless you use your army standard (questionable) or have a routed
enemy (requires a cooperative enemy) to keep you eager.

This CAN work Bill, but the question needs to be, is there another,
better option available, given the troops at hand.

If I was playing Condotta against an elephant army, I would try to
match pikes, lights and moogs on the elephants, and go after the rest
of the army with shock troops. This sounds overly simplistic, but if
you do a better job of doing that, than the elephant guy does of
keeping you from doing it, you will probably win ... especially
considering that if you set the moogs up properly, they are drop dead
killer vs. elephants.

Hope this helps ... g

[Greg Regets]

One thing I forgot.

Do not discount very cheap regular loose order crossbowmen as an anti-
elephant alternative. They are not your best choice, as Frank
correctly pointed out, but if that is what you have ... it is, what
it is. The factors are not good, but the elephant will have to get to
your short range in order to charge you.

What you are in effect doing, is sacrificing <50 points to shoot an
elephant up so bad, he will be out of the game, at least for a while.

Obviously you have to include two things with this tactic ... a) keep
everything else out of waver test range, b) be kicking his butt
somewhere else.

Thanks ... g

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Bill,

<sigh> I do so miss my Peltastoi! Sadly Warrior has deleted them from use
as they have also deleted my Trapezetoi, and left my Regular Varangian Guard to
collect dust on the Shelf as they are now dogmeat for the very knights they
fought to a standstill or beat outright. I own these figures in both scales and
bemoan their deletion or in the case of the "Best Trained and Best morale troops
in the empire a very diminished state. Too bad, the authors didn't consider Mark
Stone's old Spearpoint article concerning the Varangians! "Oh woe is the plight
of the most professional army of it's time!"

kelly "the Greco-Arabic Kid"

hrisikos8 <hrisikos@...> wrote:
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets" <gar@t...> wrote:
> I would be inclined to take these as;
>
> 8 Fig, Reg C LHI, 2HCT, CB, Sh
>
> At that price, I would be buying very few units, no more than two.
>
> The primary function for these units would be to operate with the
> SHK, to offer shooting potential and subsequent bound flank combat
> potential. If you are fortunate to get a good shot in before a
knight
> on knight battle, this will make a world of difference in what is
> normally a "stick". Effective prep on a EHK or HK unit, will all
but
> assure a break on contact with your SHK.
>
> You could save eight points by not arming the back rank with 2HCT,
> but I have found this to be points well spent. The normal combat
> situation for these units is on the flank, and in that instance,
> expanding out is useful.
>
> The big advantages of these units is that they march at the same
> speed as your knights. As such, they operate very effectively if
your
> stategy is to hold the knights in reserve, rather than lead with
> them. Also, if you use these as a knight attack component, they
have
> the advantage of pinning after march, and approaching to short
range
> shooting next bound.
>
> As far as elephants, avoid them like the plague. That is what Moogs
> are for.
>
> As a matter of fact, avoid any waver with these that you can. They
> are expensive C's. If you fail a test, you might as well be armed
> with IPW for all the good your fancy weapons will do you.
>
> Take care ... g


Thanks Greg, this is the analysis I was looking for...but... how
about taking them as 4E, front rank LHI, JLS, Sh and back rank LMI,
Jls, Sh? Then I can use them as medieval peltasts. Or would front
rank LTS be better. If all JLS, put them in skirmish and they're just
about unshootable (especially if you up armor the back rank to LHI).
Also well-suited to kill Elephants and control any difficult terrain.
How about that? Medieval Peltasts?


Greek



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[Kelly Wilkinson]

"Okay!,"
You've drawn me in! Bill, why not play that "other Jewish/Greek army, The
Maccabean Jews?" Bob Rossi had a friend once from Scotland who referred to these
boys as Mac cAbeeeans because they fought like the Scots and could stand up to
most cav with high morale Peltasts! "Heck, Laddie(thick Scottish acent), all you
have to do is line up Fanatics in the path of the Elephants and Roll up fer
Daddy!" Irg A Jewish fanatics "Laugh a mans Laugh at those stinkin Elephants!"
"HA, HA!" And in the Hutchby and Clark List, you even get some pikes to hold the
open ground if you aren't Scottish/manly enough to stand like a REAL man in the
open and face knights in your manly kilts! Regular B's are pretty good for the
waiver test! For heaven's sakes! Just talking about this army makes me want to
break out into SONG! As I write, I'm humming "Scotland the Brave!"

kelly

Greg Regets <gar@...> wrote:
LHI/LMI JLS Sh vs. elephants ... different troop type, same
principle. You will have a waver test, and will probably be uneasy,
unless you use your army standard (questionable) or have a routed
enemy (requires a cooperative enemy) to keep you eager.

This CAN work Bill, but the question needs to be, is there another,
better option available, given the troops at hand.

If I was playing Condotta against an elephant army, I would try to
match pikes, lights and moogs on the elephants, and go after the rest
of the army with shock troops. This sounds overly simplistic, but if
you do a better job of doing that, than the elephant guy does of
keeping you from doing it, you will probably win ... especially
considering that if you set the moogs up properly, they are drop dead
killer vs. elephants.

Hope this helps ... g


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[Bill Chriss]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, kelly wilkinson
<jwilkinson62@y...> wrote:
> "Okay!,"
> You've drawn me in! Bill, why not play that "other
Jewish/Greek army, The Maccabean Jews?"


"Yati then eine alithinos Hellenes." Or translated into
English: "Because they are not truly Greeks." HOWEVER....I DO play my
Spearpoint Later Greek hoplite list (check previous threads for the
citation to the Spearpoint issue where this appears, 1997 I believe),
where the THESSALIAN peltasts can be upgraded to Reg B. Believe me,
if Maccabean Jewish peltasts can be Reg B, Thessalians MUST be, as
they were universally acknowledged to be the finest peltasts and
javelinmen IN THE WORLD. As for the IRR A fanatics, this does not
suit me, as it smacks of lack of civility and culture.


Greek