Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

> Jon,
>
> Last night during your game with Matt there was a
> situation
> where you broke a longbow unit of Matt's and
> converted charged into
> one of his knights that was within 120 paces of his
> breaking unit
> before and during the rout move. You stated that the
> Knight did not
> have to take the waver test as the knight unit was
> involved in a
> converted charge by your pursuing unit. This got me
> to thinking
> about the situation so I went to the pertinent
> sections in the rule
> book. Here is what I found. . .
>
> 1. On page 45 section 6.167 the pertinent
> information is in the
> second sentence and states, "A converted charge is
> not declared and
> prevents all shooting at, charges on, waver tests
> and movement or
> charge response by either body before any resulting
> combat is
> adjudicated NEXT bound." By this I get the
> impression that any of
> these things that happen NEXT Bound is where these
> conditions apply.>>
>
> That is an incorrect impression. Those restrictions
> last from the point it becomes a coverted charge
> until it is resolved in the next bound - essentially
> a complete bound as converted charges are all the
> result of combat.
>
> Jon



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 10/13/2004 2:55:03 AM GMT Daylight Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

The following has now got me confused, surely the waver test for seeing a
routing body is taken immediately, before the converted charge takes place or
has even been considered.

Which way is it? If we have been playing this wrong it is the wording on
the waver test section that needs attention.

mark mallard

Jon,
>
> Last night during your game with Matt there was a
> situation
> where you broke a longbow unit of Matt's and
> converted charged into
> one of his knights that was within 120 paces of his
> breaking unit
> before and during the rout move. You stated that the
> Knight did not
> have to take the waver test as the knight unit was
> involved in a
> converted charge by your pursuing unit. This got me
> to thinking
> about the situation so I went to the pertinent
> sections in the rule
> book. Here is what I found. . .
>
> 1. On page 45 section 6.167 the pertinent
> information is in the
> second sentence and states, "A converted charge is
> not declared and
> prevents all shooting at, charges on, waver tests
> and movement or
> charge response by either body before any resulting
> combat is
> adjudicated NEXT bound." By this I get the
> impression that any of
> these things that happen NEXT Bound is where these
> conditions apply.>>
>
> That is an incorrect impression. Those restrictions
> last from the point it becomes a coverted charge
> until it is resolved in the next bound - essentially
> a complete bound as converted charges are all the
> result of combat.
>
> Jon






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Thanks Mark,

I thought I was the only person to catch that.

kelly

markmallard7@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/13/2004 2:55:03 AM GMT Daylight Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

The following has now got me confused, surely the waver test for seeing a
routing body is taken immediately, before the converted charge takes place or
has even been considered.

Which way is it? If we have been playing this wrong it is the wording on
the waver test section that needs attention.

mark mallard

Jon,
>
> Last night during your game with Matt there was a
> situation
> where you broke a longbow unit of Matt's and
> converted charged into
> one of his knights that was within 120 paces of his
> breaking unit
> before and during the rout move. You stated that the
> Knight did not
> have to take the waver test as the knight unit was
> involved in a
> converted charge by your pursuing unit. This got me
> to thinking
> about the situation so I went to the pertinent
> sections in the rule
> book. Here is what I found. . .
>
> 1. On page 45 section 6.167 the pertinent
> information is in the
> second sentence and states, "A converted charge is
> not declared and
> prevents all shooting at, charges on, waver tests
> and movement or
> charge response by either body before any resulting
> combat is
> adjudicated NEXT bound." By this I get the
> impression that any of
> these things that happen NEXT Bound is where these
> conditions apply.>>
>
> That is an incorrect impression. Those restrictions
> last from the point it becomes a coverted charge
> until it is resolved in the next bound - essentially
> a complete bound as converted charges are all the
> result of combat.
>
> Jon






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

The following has now got me confused, surely the waver test for seeing a
routing body is taken immediately, before the converted charge takes place or
has even been considered.>>

Not if, in the combat direction, the converted charge is already in place when
another body, not involved and after it in the combat direction, breaks and
routs.

<<Which way is it? If we have been playing this wrong it is the wording on
the waver test section that needs attention.>>

I have reviewed it and found nothing wrong. The words 'prevents all' in the
section on converted charges is pretty definitive.

Jon

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Jon,

I don't have a problem with how the game is supposed to be played. The
difficulty is in how the bound is explained in relation to when a waver test is
supposed to be taken. Under the section "The Bound" at the very bottom, the
rules state that prompts and waver tests are diced for when they are supposed to
occur and not in any sequence in the bound. Therefore to determine when a waver
test is taken, I went to the section called, "The Waver Test." The second
paragraph down says that waver tests are taken immediately. Therefore the rules
as they are written seem to imply that if a unit that sees a broken friend
before the converted charge makes contact (because the test occurs immediately)
must waver test. The way that this is written seems to imply this to me. After
discussing this with Todd, he seemed to think that this is a Barker hold over
that needs looking into.

kelly
JonCleaves@... wrote:
The following has now got me confused, surely the waver test for seeing a
routing body is taken immediately, before the converted charge takes place or
has even been considered.>>

Not if, in the combat direction, the converted charge is already in place when
another body, not involved and after it in the combat direction, breaks and
routs.

<<Which way is it? If we have been playing this wrong it is the wording on
the waver test section that needs attention.>>

I have reviewed it and found nothing wrong. The words 'prevents all' in the
section on converted charges is pretty definitive.

Jon


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Therefore the rules as they are written seem to imply that if a unit
that sees a broken friend before the converted charge makes contact
(because the test occurs immediately) must waver test.>>

Oh, if it was in the case of seeing a router before the converted
charge makes contact, then hell yes, there is a waver.

I am sorry, I would have sworn this example was based on what
happened in the game you watched between Matt and myself. In that
game the router broke after the converted charge occured in a combat
coming before the break in the combat direction.

Jon

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Hey, If I'm mistaken then I grant that to you. I just thought that the knight
unit was within the 120 paces required for the waver test. Based on when a waver
test is supposed to happen in the rules, I get the impression that the test must
happen before the rout move even happens and therefore before the converted
charge. That's all. For some reason, I thought you did 96 fatigue points to his
24 figure LB unit sending it routing of to broken unit hell right next to the
knight who sucked up the converted charge.

kw

Jon <JonCleaves@...> wrote:

Therefore the rules as they are written seem to imply that if a unit
that sees a broken friend before the converted charge makes contact
(because the test occurs immediately) must waver test.>>

Oh, if it was in the case of seeing a router before the converted
charge makes contact, then hell yes, there is a waver.

I am sorry, I would have sworn this example was based on what
happened in the game you watched between Matt and myself. In that
game the router broke after the converted charge occured in a combat
coming before the break in the combat direction.

Jon




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