Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Hello Jon,
I'm hoping to have something cleared up. I'm not very good with diagrams so
I'll try to explain using words, if my question does not make sense, please let
me know. I've been playing for about a year now and I thought I understood
fairly well what constitutes a Flank charge from reading the rules. But a friend
who has been playing for 20 years or so has me thinking twice, and apparently
this has been a very contentious issue in the past. I would wait until the new
rulebook is published but I don't think he will play me again until we get
cleared up on this point (kidding a bit here)

Situation 1

Unit "A" ( steady Superheavy knights) declares a charge on Unit "B" (Close order
foot). No part of unit A is behind the flank of Unit B at the time of
declaration. By wheeling up to 45 degrees, and then using the rest of it's
movement, Unit A is able to contact a flanking side of Unit B with the rest of
it's movement using the nearest corner of Unit A's base. After pivoting, there
is room to fit and no other impediments to charging.

Is it a legal charge?
Is it a Flank Charge, given that no part of unit A was behind the Flank of B at
the time of declaration?
Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room to fit
in either case?
Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal target such
as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.
Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge normally would?

Situation 2
Again Unit "A" (Super Heavy knights) declares a charge on Unit "B". In this
case, a very small part of Unit A is behind the Flank of Unit B. However, even
if Unit B wheels, it is unable to contact the side of unit B with any of it's
elements corners. Instead, Unit A contacts the corner of Unit B with the front
face of one of its elements. Again there is room to fit and no other
circumstances which might prevent charging.

Again, is it a legal charge?
Is it a Flank charge?
Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room to fit
in either case?
Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal target such
as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.
Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge normally would?


I hope there is enough to go on here, bearing mind I am mainly interested in
finding out if these are regarded as Flank charges and what the implications
are.

Sorry for the trouble Jon, but thanks for taking the time to look at this.

Allan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

<< I've been playing for about a year now and I thought I understood fairly well
what constitutes a Flank charge from reading the rules. But a friend who has
been playing for 20 years or so has me thinking twice,>>

No one has been playing Warrior for 20 years... ;)

<< and apparently this has been a very contentious issue in the past. I would
wait until the new rulebook is published but I don't think he will play me again
until we get cleared up on this point (kidding a bit here) >>

The revised text will completely demarcate flank charges that start behind the
flank and those that don't and all the differences between them.

<<Situation 1

Unit "A" ( steady Superheavy knights) declares a charge on Unit "B" (Close order
foot). No part of unit A is behind the flank of Unit B at the time of
declaration. By wheeling up to 45 degrees, and then using the rest of it's
movement, Unit A is able to contact a flanking side of Unit B with the rest of
it's movement using the nearest corner of Unit A's base. After pivoting, there
is room to fit and no other impediments to charging.

Is it a legal charge?>>

It sounds it. A had to not have ANY part of its front edge extending in front
of B - but it sounds like it did not.

<<Is it a Flank Charge, given that no part of unit A was behind the Flank of B
at the time of declaration? >>

Yes, that is possible.

<<Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room to
fit in either case?>>

If it *could* pivot to face front, it is not a flank charge - so flank.

<<Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal target such
as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.>>

No. One of the differences - light troops (excl LCh) need to start behind the
flank.

<<Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge normally
would?>>

No. Another difference.

<<Situation 2
Again Unit "A" (Super Heavy knights) declares a charge on Unit "B". In this
case, a very small part of Unit A is behind the Flank of Unit B. However, even
if Unit B wheels, it is unable to contact the side of unit B with any of it's
elements corners. Instead, Unit A contacts the corner of Unit B with the front
face of one of its elements. Again there is room to fit and no other
circumstances which might prevent charging.>>

Sorry - try this one again or use a diagram I am no dummy, but I can't get what
you are saying here. I think you might have switched a B for A in there
somewhere...lol

Jon

Hi Jon,
Thanks for the info on the first question, I'll try to elaborate a little
on the second. You're right, I did mix up what I was asking.

Here is the situation;

Unit "A" is a unit of super heavy knights declaring a charge on Unit "B",
which is close order foot. Unit A is partially angled towards Unit B in such
a way that part of Unit A is behind the line that extends Unit B's Flank. In
other words, Unit A is partly, but not completely, behind Unit B's Flank at
the time of declaration. After charging, Unit A is not able to make contact
with it's leading corner on any part of the side of unit B. Instead, when
the charge is complete, Unit A makes contact with the front edge of its own
element on Unit B's front corner. Unit A is unable to contact Unit B's side
edge.


Is it a Flank charge?
Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room to
fit in either case?
Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal target
such as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.
Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge normally
would?

Thank you again
Allan

[joncleaves]

Here is the situation;

Unit "A" is a unit of super heavy knights declaring a charge on Unit "B",
which is close order foot. Unit A is partially angled towards Unit B in such
a way that part of Unit A is behind the line that extends Unit B's Flank. In
other words, Unit A is partly, but not completely, behind Unit B's Flank at
the time of declaration. After charging, Unit A is not able to make contact
with it's leading corner on any part of the side of unit B. Instead, when
the charge is complete, Unit A makes contact with the front edge of its own
element on Unit B's front corner. Unit A is unable to contact Unit B's side
edge.>>

Ok, I am doing my best, but without a diagram, I cannot see how a body that
starts behind another's flank (one that is not countercharging, as this one
can't) ends up not on the flank at all. I need your help to clarify this, as I
can't visualize what you are saying. I am sorry.

<<Is it a Flank charge?>.

Any charge that starts behind the flank is a flank charge. Whether it contacts
the flank or not is dependent on whether or not the target
charges/countercharges or stands.

<<Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room to
fit in either case?>>

Flnak, normally in this case. But you;re telling me you started behind the
flank but could not then get to it. I can't see this, so I amy be answering the
wrong way.

<<Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal target
such as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.>>

If it STARTS behind the flank, yes.

<<Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge normally
would?>>

If it STARTS behind the flank, yes.

Jon

That's ok Jon, I think based on the other answers you've given I'm satisfied
that I know the ins and outs of this. Thanks for your time.

Allan

----- Original Message -----
From: <JonCleaves@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Defining Flank Charges (long)


>
> Here is the situation;
>
> Unit "A" is a unit of super heavy knights declaring a charge on Unit "B",
> which is close order foot. Unit A is partially angled towards Unit B in
such
> a way that part of Unit A is behind the line that extends Unit B's Flank.
In
> other words, Unit A is partly, but not completely, behind Unit B's Flank
at
> the time of declaration. After charging, Unit A is not able to make
contact
> with it's leading corner on any part of the side of unit B. Instead, when
> the charge is complete, Unit A makes contact with the front edge of its
own
> element on Unit B's front corner. Unit A is unable to contact Unit B's
side
> edge.>>
>
> Ok, I am doing my best, but without a diagram, I cannot see how a body
that starts behind another's flank (one that is not countercharging, as this
one can't) ends up not on the flank at all. I need your help to clarify
this, as I can't visualize what you are saying. I am sorry.
>
> <<Is it a Flank charge?>.
>
> Any charge that starts behind the flank is a flank charge. Whether it
contacts the flank or not is dependent on whether or not the target
charges/countercharges or stands.
>
> <<Does unit A pivot to face unit B's Flank or front assuming there is room
to
> fit in either case?>>
>
> Flnak, normally in this case. But you;re telling me you started behind
the flank but could not then get to it. I can't see this, so I amy be
answering the wrong way.
>
> <<Is it Legal for a Light Cavalry unit, to charge a normally illegal
target
> such as steady Close order foot in this circumstance.>>
>
> If it STARTS behind the flank, yes.
>
> <<Does the charge cancel the need for prompting, as a Flank Charge
normally
> would?>>
>
> If it STARTS behind the flank, yes.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
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