Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:07:30 -0400
> From: "John Murphy" <jjmurphy@...>
> Subject: dismounting HYW SHK
>
> What are a few reasons why you would you ever want to do this in
> Warrior? Say for instance English 2E Reg B SHK/HK units with a
> typical supporting cast.
>
> As an example, I might guess against pikes? Luckily never had to
> make this choice yet.
>

Beating pikemen is one use, but not one that reveals a lot about the value of
the tactic. That's the kind of question -- no offense, John -- that shows too
much "linear" thinking about what beats what face up, and not enough "combined
arms" thinking about what works well in combination.

Let me see if I can give an illustrative example. Had to do this in a 7th
tournament in Southern Cal some years ago.

You have: 2 units of Irr B SHK L,Sh, 2 stands each. You are 240p away from an
Aztec opponent who has 1 unit of Reg B LMI JLS,D,Sh (or some such thing), 6
stands.

Here's the dilemma: to prevent him from going into skirmish and getting away in
an evade and/or counter, you need to be 40p away. At 40p he goes (typically)
120p and you go (typically) 160p, so you should most likely catch him and thus
he will most likely not skirmish. The problem is that at 40p your SHK is going
to get shot to pieces.

The solution? Combined arms: dismount the "inside" knight unit, but not the
outside one. Use the mounted unit to preempt him from skirmishing, and this
dismounted unit to actually charge, make contact, and pin him (so the mounted
unit can subsequently smack into him).

It works like this: either he approaches to his shooting range (80p) or not. If
not, you approach to 120p but don't declare charges. If he does approach to
80p, then the knight unit lined up against the middle of his unit approaches
40p and dismounts, while the other approaches 40p to the end of his line and
remains mounted.

If he didn't approach, and you approached to 120p, then next bound he will
presumably not approach again, probably waiting to counter back. You approach
from 120p to 80p, dismounting the inside knight unit. Probably he'll make his
counter, but next bound (already dismounted) you can approach a full 80p and
you'll have him.

Basically, this process continues until you reach a bound where (a) your
dismounted unit is within 80p and (b) he is not in skirmish. You then charge
him, not impetuously, with just the dismounted unit. Whether you are disordered
or not really doesn't matter. Then next bound you charge him with the mounted
unit. In that bound, and every bound thereafter, he is guaranteed to take 1
CPF, to take more h-t-h casualties, and to take casualties from a mounted
opponent. Thus every bound he'll be recoiling disordered. Eventually you'll
nail him.

If, on the other hand, you try to charge him with two mounted units, the likely
outcome is that you'll win the bound you charge, but probably reach a bound in
which your tired and disordered knights fail to do a CPF, and are eventually
exhausted themselves. Not a good outcome.

An important caveat: you probably can't do this across the line. You won't have
enough knight units. So pick your spot carefully. And -- this is the key --
carefully means being able to keep small 6 figure units of Otomi who may be
lurking behind the lines from charging you in the flank. That means when your
two knight units go in, they must themselves have sufficient flank protection
to be left to their task unmolested.

Now, if you followed all that you can see how the same principle can be applied
to beating pikemen. The problem isn't beating pikemen when you charge them. The
problem is (a) being able to do a CPF to them, and (b) being able to continue
doing a CPF to them when you're no longer charging but instead merely following
up.

Suppose we have these same two knight units facing 8 stands of Reg C MI P,Sh.
When charging you hit him 5@5=20*2=40, for a CPF. When following up, it ain't
so easy. If you have all 12 figures following up, you're 12@3 (mtd vs. MI) +2
(fighting disordered foot) +1 (following up) -1 (tired) -1 (disordered) =
12@4=36. Very close. A down 2 roll with either body and you're screwed. Getting
only 9 figures following up (maybe you can't expand with both units) and again
you're screwed. The pikes, by the way, on the follow up bound are doing 32@1 (P
vs SHK) -2 (disordered) = 32@-1 = 18. A big up roll by the pikes, and again
you're toast. And suffice it to say your knights are on a fast track to
exhaustion with this approach.

A better tactic is to dismount one of the knight units (again, the inside unit),
and use that combination. P is at a lower factor against SHI, and you count as
an 8 figure unit, so overall you're much more durable this way.

A couple of pointers on dismounting: don't get hung up on being disordered.
Often the point is the tremendous resistance to taking shooting and h-t-h
casualties that SHI have, and being disordered doesn't matter here. So if you
have to dismount and charge before getting reordered, that's OK.

Second trick: use a general to dismount, do it in staff moves, become reordered
immediately after staff moves at the end of the bound (yes, that's the way the
rule works) and then approach and charge in good order next bound.

Be aware that SHI making more than a 40p tactical move take fatigue, but again,
don't get hung up about it. These guys are there for their durability, so an
extra fatigue here or there really isn't going to matter.

That's dismounting in a nutshell. Hope it helps.


-Mark Stone

[Mark Stone]

> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:37:08 -0700
> From: "Frank Gilson" <franktrevorgilson@...>
> Subject: Longbowmen, how to buy?
>
> *************
> While on the subject of shieldless SHK, what about the other
> mainstay of the HYWE being the longbowmen? Are the stakes and 2HCW
> cost-effective?
> *************
>
> I've used a lot of longbowmen over the years. How do I buy them now? Either
> in 24 figure units as LMI half shielded, with stakes...or in 8 figure units
> as LHI all 2HCW, no stakes.
>
> The 24 figure units can be used in the battle line, as they've got stakes
> for when that's necessary. The 8 man units (hopefully upgraded in morale if
> possible) fill gaps, get 4 figures shooting at 240p, conduct follow up
> charges, etc.
>

Frank has the right idea here. There is no single "correct" way to buy the
longbowmen. You need to think through what function they will be performing in
your army, and buy them accordingly. Most likely, not all longbow units will be
bought the same way.

Shooting blocks should be 24 figures, and probably just LMI. H-t-H support units
should be 8 figures, LHI, and have 2HCW. You might want one unit that is close
order, HI, Reg B, and armed to the teeth; probably a 16 figure unit. This will
be a "target" to your opponents, since it can't skirmish away, but a tough
target to beat, and thus one that can serve as a useful lure for you to channel
the battle in a particular direction.

And so on. Think about what functions you need troops in your army to perform,
and then look to see what on the list performs those functions. The beauty of
longbowmen is that they can perform more than one function depending on how you
buy them, so don't buy them all the same way.


-Mark Stone

[John Murphy]

No offense taken Mark. Likely an accurate assessment on your part.

Once again, as in a lot of your posts, much tactical food for
thought here.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stone <mark@d...> wrote:
> the kind of question -- no offense, John -- that shows too
> much "linear" thinking about what beats what face up, and not
enough "combined
> arms" thinking about what works well in combination.

> You have: 2 units of Irr B SHK L,Sh, 2 stands each. You are 240p
away from an
> Aztec opponent who has 1 unit of Reg B LMI JLS,D,Sh (or some such
thing), 6
> stands.