Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/22/2004 18:25:23 Central Standard Time,
franktrevorgilson@... writes:
I actually want a bit more clarification on obstacles (Ditch and Stakes
specifically).

Ok...It looks like mounted can't cross Ditch...so, then, mounted can't
charge anything that is on the other side of a ditch.>>

True.
(does this apply to
stakes? other than elephants who ignore stakes...)>>

Stakes are a portable obstacle, NOT, I say again NOT a TFF. 99% of these
questions are being caused by folks mixing up these two.

The reason a chariot can't cross stakes is because OBSTACLES are impassable
to wheels. Obstacles slow and disorder mounted, but they are not impassable to
mounted, unless a chariot.


In fact, I need put nothing defending a ditch to prevent mounted from
crossing it...so, for my 10 points, I can buy a 600p long bit of
ditch...some lists which permit me to place two such segments in the forward
zone, which no mounted may ever cross.>>
TFFs are not bought in paces, they are bought in elements.
There is no list that I am aware of that allows you to place a ditch in the
forward zone - just ditched palisades. There will not be any 'ditch only' in
the forward zone in any list, so not something I am worried about.
But yes, it is true, that mounted cannot cross a ditch. (And TOG was that
way too, so I am not sure what the issue is...lol)


Sure, my opponent's infantry can come across the ditch. However, charge
reach will be shortened, so if I have a unit defending the ditch lip on my
side, my enemy can only charge from 40p with close order infantry or 80p
with loose/open order infantry...not their normal full charge reach.>>

True.


Ditch will disorder close order troops before combat...and I count as
higher. So, unless my enemy's close order troops also have missile weapons
they can use to shoot me away from the ditch, they're pretty much not coming
over it.>>

Close troops suck at crossing ditches. And always have.


Thus, it would appear you need to have decent loose order attack infantry if
you want to assault a ditch >>

That's what i have always used...lol

This seems to apply to Stakes also, given my reading of the TFF clinic
document. So, no mounted can charge any troops across stakes (excepting
Elephants, who ignore stakes). No mounted can even move across stakes that
just happen to be sitting around, either. >>

All wrong. Stakes are an obstacle, not a TFF.
Close order infantry will be
disordered BEFORE combat when charging something defending stakes. Infantry
charging a unit defending stakes must use its reduced charge move (40p for
close, 80p for loose/open).>>

Yup. Same as 'always'.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Frank Gilson]

I actually want a bit more clarification on obstacles (Ditch and Stakes
specifically).

Ok...It looks like mounted can't cross Ditch...so, then, mounted can't
charge anything that is on the other side of a ditch. (does this apply to
stakes? other than elephants who ignore stakes...)

In fact, I need put nothing defending a ditch to prevent mounted from
crossing it...so, for my 10 points, I can buy a 600p long bit of
ditch...some lists which permit me to place two such segments in the forward
zone, which no mounted may ever cross.

Sure, my opponent's infantry can come across the ditch. However, charge
reach will be shortened, so if I have a unit defending the ditch lip on my
side, my enemy can only charge from 40p with close order infantry or 80p
with loose/open order infantry...not their normal full charge reach.

Ditch will disorder close order troops before combat...and I count as
higher. So, unless my enemy's close order troops also have missile weapons
they can use to shoot me away from the ditch, they're pretty much not coming
over it.

Thus, it would appear you need to have decent loose order attack infantry if
you want to assault a ditch (or, you need to avoid the ditch
entirely...which also serves my purpose, I have restricted the movement of
your troops)....still, if I have something decent defending the ditch,
you're not winning....dense, effective missile fire on your part is the only
way you can affect my troops that are holding that ditch.

This seems to apply to Stakes also, given my reading of the TFF clinic
document. So, no mounted can charge any troops across stakes (excepting
Elephants, who ignore stakes). No mounted can even move across stakes that
just happen to be sitting around, either. Close order infantry will be
disordered BEFORE combat when charging something defending stakes. Infantry
charging a unit defending stakes must use its reduced charge move (40p for
close, 80p for loose/open).

Basically, this means that a 32 figure pike block is probably going to lose
charging across stakes into a 16 figure LMI longbow unit (shielded).

Am I correct?

Frank

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[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 2/23/04 1:48:03 AM GMT Standard Time, JonCleaves@...
writes:

> In a message dated 2/22/2004 18:25:23 Central Standard Time,
> franktrevorgilson@... writes:
> I actually want a bit more clarification on obstacles (Ditch and Stakes
> specifically).
>
> Ok...It looks like mounted can't cross Ditch...so, then, mounted can't
> charge anything that is on the other side of a ditch.>>
>
> True.
> (does this apply to
> stakes? other than elephants who ignore stakes...)>>
>
> Stakes are a portable obstacle, NOT, I say again NOT a TFF. 99% of
> these
> questions are being caused by folks mixing up these two.
>
> The reason a chariot can't cross stakes is because OBSTACLES are impassable
> to wheels. Obstacles slow and disorder mounted, but they are not impassable
> to
> mounted, unless a chariot.
>
>
> In fact, I need put nothing defending a ditch to prevent mounted from
> crossing it...so, for my 10 points, I can buy a 600p long bit of
> ditch...some lists which permit me to place two such segments in the forward
>
> zone, which no mounted may ever cross.>>
> TFFs are not bought in paces, they are bought in elements.
> There is no list that I am aware of that allows you to place a ditch in the
> forward zone - just ditched palisades. There will not be any 'ditch only'
> in
> the forward zone in any list, so not something I am worried about.
> But yes, it is true, that mounted cannot cross a ditch. (And TOG was that
> way too, so I am not sure what the issue is...lol)
>
>
> Sure, my opponent's infantry can come across the ditch. However, charge
> reach will be shortened, so if I have a unit defending the ditch lip on my
> side, my enemy can only charge from 40p with close order infantry or 80p
> with loose/open order infantry...not their normal full charge reach.>>
>
> True.
>
>
> Ditch will disorder close order troops before combat...and I count as
> higher. So, unless my enemy's close order troops also have missile weapons
> they can use to shoot me away from the ditch, they're pretty much not coming
>
> over it.>>
>
> Close troops suck at crossing ditches. And always have.
>
>
> Thus, it would appear you need to have decent loose order attack infantry if
>
> you want to assault a ditch >>
>
> That's what i have always used...lol
>
> This seems to apply to Stakes also, given my reading of the TFF clinic
> document. So, no mounted can charge any troops across stakes (excepting
> Elephants, who ignore stakes). No mounted can even move across stakes that
> just happen to be sitting around, either. >>
>
> All wrong. Stakes are an obstacle, not a TFF.
> Close order infantry will be
> disordered BEFORE combat when charging something defending stakes. Infantry
> charging a unit defending stakes must use its reduced charge move (40p for
> close, 80p for loose/open).>>
>
> Yup. Same as 'always'.
>
> J
>
Can we all stop using these abbreviations do you think "TFF" etc it
might help relieve the confusion.

mark mallard

ps.. had another relaxed game yesterday after 5+ hours only a few light units
were shaken and or routing - we will continue at our relaxed pace until
completion. it is my contention that armies with a reasonable light infantry
screen
will never be suitable for the 4 hour or less 1600 point tourney.

For the competitions you score as in the rule book? or use another system?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott holder]

For the competitions you score as in the rule book? or use another system?

>We use the rule book system and "weight it". You can hunt around for a
downloadable copy of the excel spreadsheet at www.nasamw.org.

scott