Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

Just an example of applying some of what I have learned from these
discussions. And wondering if I am on a the right general track here.

Early Nikephorian Byzantine

This (and its earlier relatives) is maybe my all-time very favorite
army for historical reasons (Patsies/LIR have to be a close, but
definite, second and HYWE a distant third).

It can be a pain for me to play, however, and seeing the expression
on the opponent's face when you plunk down all those teeny light
units force-marched to the centerline at set-up (the "darn, this will
take all day" look) is tough.

That said, I have run this army a number of times, with mixed success
which is to say won some lost some. Actually for me that probably
makes this an excellent army :)

First is how I have built this army previously
Admittedly, looking at this list it still appeals to me
Old habits die hard after all

17 units (4 commands, 160 figures: 48 mounted + 112 foot)
@ 1,600 total

1x CinC & Kavallarioi Lancers
2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh (w/ PA std)
@ 197 = 197

3x Sub-general & Kavallarioi Lancers
2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh (w/ P std)
@ 127 = 381

1x Kavallarioi Kataphraktoi
2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B SHC L, Sh
@ 150 = 150

4x Kavallarioi Archers
2E Reg C LC B
@ 34 = 136

2x Psiloi
4E Reg D LI B
@ 26 = 52

3x Kontaratoi
6E Reg C 1/3 HI 1/3 MI LTS, JLS, D, Sh 1/3 MI B, Sh
@ 154 = 462

3x Kontaratoi Menaulatoi
2E Reg B 1/2 HI 1/2 MI HTW, JLS, D, Sh
@ 74 = 222

Next is how I might build this army now

Note this has almost exactly the same capabilities
Except I can not skirmish with my HC anymore
But there are plenty other units to do that job

And now I have 212 extra points for almost no real difference
That might be enough to get some 1.5-rank chopper Varangians
back into this mix
(I had dropped them because I like the Kontaratoi better,
and still do)
This would help with both more shock capability
and some terrain troops
0-12 Irr B LHI 2HCW, Sh @ 18
too bad they can't be LMI and drop the shields...
And / or my beloved fire syphoneers!
0-2 Reg C LMI fire projector, Sh @ 56

17 units (4 commands, 160 figures: 48 mounted + 112 foot)
@ 1,388 total

1x CinC & Kavallarioi Lancers
2E 1/2 Reg A HC L, B, Sh 1/2 Reg D MC L, Sh (w/ PA std)
@ 179 = 179

3x Sub-general & Kavallarioi Lancers
2E 1/2 Reg A HC L, B, Sh 1/2 Reg D MC L, Sh (w/ P std)
@ 109 = 327

1x Kavallarioi Kataphraktoi
2E Reg B SHC L, Sh
@ 146 = 146

4x Kavallarioi Archers
2E Reg D LC B
@ 30 = 120

2x Psiloi
4E Reg D LI B
@ 26 = 52

3x Kontaratoi
6E 1/3 Reg C MI 2/3 Reg D MI 2/3 LTS, JLS, D, Sh 1/3 B, Sh
@ 122 = 366

3x Kontaratoi Menaulatoi
2E Reg B MI HTW, JLS, D, Sh
@ 66 = 198

So... better, worse, no change, so off base to begin with it is hard
to say, what do you think?

[Frank Gilson]

Ok...I personnaly wouldn't put a general into a unit with morale less
than B, given that generals have a role of recovering friendly
routers...and are often used as secondary strike troops, sometimes
around their own routers. Having D class in the general's unit is
going to make it impossible to achieve the above roles.

Reg B MI HTW,JLS,D,Sh (or worse, HI) are phenomally expensive...and I
don't think their value is high enough to justify their purchase on
this list. I'd rather have the Varangians (Irr B LHI
2HCW,JLS,Sh/JLS,Sh).

Frank

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "J. Murphy" <jjmurphy@s...>
wrote:
> Just an example of applying some of what I have learned from these
> discussions. And wondering if I am on a the right general track
here.
>
> Early Nikephorian Byzantine
>
> This (and its earlier relatives) is maybe my all-time very favorite
> army for historical reasons (Patsies/LIR have to be a close, but
> definite, second and HYWE a distant third).
>
> It can be a pain for me to play, however, and seeing the expression
> on the opponent's face when you plunk down all those teeny light
> units force-marched to the centerline at set-up (the "darn, this
will
> take all day" look) is tough.
>
> That said, I have run this army a number of times, with mixed
success
> which is to say won some lost some. Actually for me that probably
> makes this an excellent army
>
> First is how I have built this army previously
> Admittedly, looking at this list it still appeals to me
> Old habits die hard after all
>
> 17 units (4 commands, 160 figures: 48 mounted + 112 foot)
> @ 1,600 total
>
> 1x CinC & Kavallarioi Lancers
> 2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh (w/ PA std)
> @ 197 = 197
>
> 3x Sub-general & Kavallarioi Lancers
> 2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh (w/ P std)
> @ 127 = 381
>
> 1x Kavallarioi Kataphraktoi
> 2E 1/2 Reg A 1/2 Reg B SHC L, Sh
> @ 150 = 150
>
> 4x Kavallarioi Archers
> 2E Reg C LC B
> @ 34 = 136
>
> 2x Psiloi
> 4E Reg D LI B
> @ 26 = 52
>
> 3x Kontaratoi
> 6E Reg C 1/3 HI 1/3 MI LTS, JLS, D, Sh 1/3 MI B, Sh
> @ 154 = 462
>
> 3x Kontaratoi Menaulatoi
> 2E Reg B 1/2 HI 1/2 MI HTW, JLS, D, Sh
> @ 74 = 222
>
> Next is how I might build this army now
>
> Note this has almost exactly the same capabilities
> Except I can not skirmish with my HC anymore
> But there are plenty other units to do that job
>
> And now I have 212 extra points for almost no real difference
> That might be enough to get some 1.5-rank chopper Varangians
> back into this mix
> (I had dropped them because I like the Kontaratoi better,
> and still do)
> This would help with both more shock capability
> and some terrain troops
> 0-12 Irr B LHI 2HCW, Sh @ 18
> too bad they can't be LMI and drop the shields...
> And / or my beloved fire syphoneers!
> 0-2 Reg C LMI fire projector, Sh @ 56
>
> 17 units (4 commands, 160 figures: 48 mounted + 112 foot)
> @ 1,388 total
>
> 1x CinC & Kavallarioi Lancers
> 2E 1/2 Reg A HC L, B, Sh 1/2 Reg D MC L, Sh (w/ PA std)
> @ 179 = 179
>
> 3x Sub-general & Kavallarioi Lancers
> 2E 1/2 Reg A HC L, B, Sh 1/2 Reg D MC L, Sh (w/ P std)
> @ 109 = 327
>
> 1x Kavallarioi Kataphraktoi
> 2E Reg B SHC L, Sh
> @ 146 = 146
>
> 4x Kavallarioi Archers
> 2E Reg D LC B
> @ 30 = 120
>
> 2x Psiloi
> 4E Reg D LI B
> @ 26 = 52
>
> 3x Kontaratoi
> 6E 1/3 Reg C MI 2/3 Reg D MI 2/3 LTS, JLS, D, Sh 1/3 B, Sh
> @ 122 = 366
>
> 3x Kontaratoi Menaulatoi
> 2E Reg B MI HTW, JLS, D, Sh
> @ 66 = 198
>
> So... better, worse, no change, so off base to begin with it is
hard
> to say, what do you think?