Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

This weekend in Barrie, Ontario, the Triafata Gaming Club put on a
12 person Fast Warrior Tournament with 4 rounds (only 3 of them scored,
one of them as practice.) The tournament scoring was calculated to
force decisions; players received 2 points for a win (a win constituted
forcing the enemy army to break and go under retreat orders) and one
point for a draw or loss. Units and points did not count--this seemed
to us unfair as the player doesn't spend "points" on his army and armies
have some different values.
We played 4 rounds in eight and a half hours with a lunch break.
The first round was long, because we had three brand new players and
they got the time to see how the rules really worked. Perhaps most
interesting, two of the newbie players finished in the top six.
I won't fill in with full battle reports, but I'll cover the
battles I played briefly. In the first (unscored) round I played Jevon
Garrett and his Ayubid Egyptians with my Bactrian Greeks (an army that I
had never played before, but that's a story for another time.) After 9
rounds of nail biting maneuvering, we had each inflicted a good deal of
damage but neither had killed off the all-important 4th unit, so the
result was a draw--a really fun draw.
In the second round, I played Greg Hauser's Sultante of Delhi.
This battle showed one of the interesting side aspects of Warrior--his
army seemed to have everything I had plus a couple of Elephants. He had
eight units to my seven, and that seemd to matter a great deal.
Despite this, I managed to keep out of the way of the Elephants while
pushing my pikes all the way down the table in an hour and thrity
minutes. Both of us walked away claiming that the next turn would have
resulted in the extinction of our opponent's army... one of us might
have been right. But the result was a draw.
In the third round, I played Al Lougheed's Han Chinese. On the
second turn, a unit of Bactrian lancers chose to charge a steady unit of
Reg C LHI 2HCT, sh. This was not a risk I might have taken in another
format, but in the win or go home format I chose to charge, caused the
waver, shook the unit, and routed it. I just barely had time to break
the rest of his army and in doing so got three of my own units wasted,
every turn taking fairly major risks to keep the pressure on his army.
This made for a very, very tense and exciting game, and Al played very
well. But right at the wire my cavalry finished him off.
In the fourth game (I now had a system for the Bactrians) I faced a
Hsiun Nu (no idea how to spell that) army from the US. The "newbie"
playing it understood all of Mark Stione's theories on skirmisher
interaction and also understood that this tournament was his to win (no
kidding--and he was playing his 9th or 10th game) if he could score a
win against me. He made a crucial mistake early, sending a HC unit
unsupported against a 4E LC unit who promptly shot it to pieces and
charged the remnants (side note--LC who fight 1.5 ranks really change
the numbers against shot up HC). Despite this error, he survived the
resulting wavers (all of them) pressured and broke my right, and
then--as can happen to all of us who love LC armies--got a few
centimeters too extended and I was able to shoot units into waver tests
that he couldn't avoid while my pike line pushed his center to the board
edge. We played 10 turns in 1.5 hours and he failed the waver test that
gave me a win after the buzzer sounded.
Other highlights that I saw included a bloody draw between Sicilian
Hauenstaufen and Wallachians, with bodies everywhere but no decisive
result, and a couple of demonstrations of the awesome power of the FW
Burmese list (New player in his 2nd-5th lifetime games won one and drew
two against experienced players. That list--).
Final Result
1st Chris Cameron Bactrian Greeks
2nd Greg Hauser Sultinate of Delhi
3rd Cole Cioran Wallachian
Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his name,
he was really good!) Hsuing Nu

A prize (one 25mm bag from Old Glory) went to Czar--we had set this
tournament up for new guys.

Next year we'll run this tournament in 1600 point format with
bigger prizes. All are welcome! There is not, contrary to rumor, snow
in Canada, in June.

Chris Cameron

>
>

[joncleaves]

That's awesome stuff, Christian. Very nice.

I am curious why you didn't employ the normal Fast Warrior scoring system
(18.5)...?

J

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian and Sarah <cgc.sjw@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:40:51 -0400
Subject: [WarriorRules] Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario


This weekend in Barrie, Ontario, the Triafata Gaming Club put on a
12 person Fast Warrior Tournament with 4 rounds (only 3 of them scored,
one of them as practice.) The tournament scoring was calculated to
force decisions; players received 2 points for a win (a win constituted
forcing the enemy army to break and go under retreat orders) and one
point for a draw or loss. Units and points did not count--this seemed
to us unfair as the player doesn't spend "points" on his army and armies
have some different values.
We played 4 rounds in eight and a half hours with a lunch break.
The first round was long, because we had three brand new players and
they got the time to see how the rules really worked. Perhaps most
interesting, two of the newbie players finished in the top six.
I won't fill in with full battle reports, but I'll cover the
battles I played briefly. In the first (unscored) round I played Jevon
Garrett and his Ayubid Egyptians with my Bactrian Greeks (an army that I
had never played before, but that's a story for another time.) After 9
rounds of nail biting maneuvering, we had each inflicted a good deal of
damage but neither had killed off the all-important 4th unit, so the
result was a draw--a really fun draw.
In the second round, I played Greg Hauser's Sultante of Delhi.
This battle showed one of the interesting side aspects of Warrior--his
army seemed to have everything I had plus a couple of Elephants. He had
eight units to my seven, and that seemd to matter a great deal.
Despite this, I managed to keep out of the way of the Elephants while
pushing my pikes all the way down the table in an hour and thrity
minutes. Both of us walked away claiming that the next turn would have
resulted in the extinction of our opponent's army... one of us might
have been right. But the result was a draw.
In the third round, I played Al Lougheed's Han Chinese. On the
second turn, a unit of Bactrian lancers chose to charge a steady unit of
Reg C LHI 2HCT, sh. This was not a risk I might have taken in another
format, but in the win or go home format I chose to charge, caused the
waver, shook the unit, and routed it. I just barely had time to break
the rest of his army and in doing so got three of my own units wasted,
every turn taking fairly major risks to keep the pressure on his army.
This made for a very, very tense and exciting game, and Al played very
well. But right at the wire my cavalry finished him off.
In the fourth game (I now had a system for the Bactrians) I faced a
Hsiun Nu (no idea how to spell that) army from the US. The "newbie"
playing it understood all of Mark Stione's theories on skirmisher
interaction and also understood that this tournament was his to win (no
kidding--and he was playing his 9th or 10th game) if he could score a
win against me. He made a crucial mistake early, sending a HC unit
unsupported against a 4E LC unit who promptly shot it to pieces and
charged the remnants (side note--LC who fight 1.5 ranks really change
the numbers against shot up HC). Despite this error, he survived the
resulting wavers (all of them) pressured and broke my right, and
then--as can happen to all of us who love LC armies--got a few
centimeters too extended and I was able to shoot units into waver tests
that he couldn't avoid while my pike line pushed his center to the board
edge. We played 10 turns in 1.5 hours and he failed the waver test that
gave me a win after the buzzer sounded.
Other highlights that I saw included a bloody draw between Sicilian
Hauenstaufen and Wallachians, with bodies everywhere but no decisive
result, and a couple of demonstrations of the awesome power of the FW
Burmese list (New player in his 2nd-5th lifetime games won one and drew
two against experienced players. That list--).
Final Result
1st Chris Cameron Bactrian Greeks
2nd Greg Hauser Sultinate of Delhi
3rd Cole Cioran Wallachian
Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his name,
he was really good!) Hsuing Nu

A prize (one 25mm bag from Old Glory) went to Czar--we had set this
tournament up for new guys.

Next year we'll run this tournament in 1600 point format with
bigger prizes. All are welcome! There is not, contrary to rumor, snow
in Canada, in June.

Chris Cameron

>
>





Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his
name,
> he was really good!) Hsuing Nu

Zar Fung of Ithaca, NY (Christian, how in the world did you mis-
spell Ithaca? I thought you LIKED greek history.... :> ) came up
with Jevon Garrett and myself to try out Warrior. He seems to have
an innate grasp of the system that still eludes me. We were both
very happy for him and the way he showed, especially considering
that he had never played Hsuing Nu before - he had mainly practiced
with Han Chinese before.

Myself, I played with the Hohenstaufen list, and played poorly,
leaving a couple of wins on the table and taking draws instead due
to bad decisions. The one thing I was happy about was remembering
to dismount my EHK and charge in the resulting EHI (after waiting 1
bound, to cure my dismount disorder) into the Burmese elephants. I
ended up pushing back the Burmese CinC elephant unit, and routing
the other elephant unit just as time ran out on the game. I just
wish I had played more quickly and decisively in my games -
particularly against the Wallachians, I was very wishy washy and
indecisive about my moves. Still got a lot to learn about
Warrior....

- Asif Chaudhry

p.s. The Hohenstaufen list seems a bit out of wack - normally, you
get plenty of decent foot in the full list from Feudal Warrior, but
in Fast Warrior, you only get 1 LMI bow unit - the rest are 3 EHK
and 2 LC units. Kind of makes it hard to put Mark Stone's "Knights
are counter-punching units" theory to work when I don't have
anything to really set up the initial punch with.......

> Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his
name,
> he was really good!) Hsuing Nu

Zar Fung of Ithaca, NY (Christian, how in the world did you mis-
spell Ithaca? I thought you LIKED greek history.... :> ) came up
with Jevon Garrett and myself to try out Warrior. He seems to have
an innate grasp of the system that still eludes me. We were both
very happy for him and the way he showed, especially considering
that he had never played Hsuing Nu before - he had mainly practiced
with Han Chinese before.

Myself, I played with the Hohenstaufen list, and played poorly,
leaving a couple of wins on the table and taking draws instead due
to bad decisions. The one thing I was happy about was remembering
to dismount my EHK and charge in the resulting EHI (after waiting 1
bound, to cure my dismount disorder) into the Burmese elephants. I
ended up pushing back the Burmese CinC elephant unit, and routing
the other elephant unit just as time ran out on the game. I just
wish I had played more quickly and decisively in my games -
particularly against the Wallachians, I was very wishy washy and
indecisive about my moves. Still got a lot to learn about
Warrior....

- Asif Chaudhry

p.s. The Hohenstaufen list seems a bit out of wack - normally, you
get plenty of decent foot in the full list from Feudal Warrior, but
in Fast Warrior, you only get 1 LMI bow unit - the rest are 3 EHK
and 2 LC units. Kind of makes it hard to put Mark Stone's "Knights
are counter-punching units" theory to work when I don't have
anything to really set up the initial punch with.......

[joncleaves]

All Fast Warrior lists are getting reviewed as part of the revision, now that
the main lists are out.

-----Original Message-----
From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:45:03 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario


> Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his
name,
> he was really good!) Hsuing Nu

Zar Fung of Ithaca, NY (Christian, how in the world did you mis-
spell Ithaca? I thought you LIKED greek history.... :> ) came up
with Jevon Garrett and myself to try out Warrior. He seems to have
an innate grasp of the system that still eludes me. We were both
very happy for him and the way he showed, especially considering
that he had never played Hsuing Nu before - he had mainly practiced
with Han Chinese before.

Myself, I played with the Hohenstaufen list, and played poorly,
leaving a couple of wins on the table and taking draws instead due
to bad decisions. The one thing I was happy about was remembering
to dismount my EHK and charge in the resulting EHI (after waiting 1
bound, to cure my dismount disorder) into the Burmese elephants. I
ended up pushing back the Burmese CinC elephant unit, and routing
the other elephant unit just as time ran out on the game. I just
wish I had played more quickly and decisively in my games -
particularly against the Wallachians, I was very wishy washy and
indecisive about my moves. Still got a lot to learn about
Warrior....

- Asif Chaudhry

p.s. The Hohenstaufen list seems a bit out of wack - normally, you
get plenty of decent foot in the full list from Feudal Warrior, but
in Fast Warrior, you only get 1 LMI bow unit - the rest are 3 EHK
and 2 LC units. Kind of makes it hard to put Mark Stone's "Knights
are counter-punching units" theory to work when I don't have
anything to really set up the initial punch with.......





Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

If someone forwards me the results for this event I'll put them on the
NASAMW list.

Zorntigonos Tetrophthalmos (also of Ithaca)

At 04:17 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>All Fast Warrior lists are getting reviewed as part of the revision, now
>that the main lists are out.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
>To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:45:03 -0000
>Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario
>
>
> > Best New Player "Czar of Ithica" (we really need to know his
>name,
> > he was really good!) Hsuing Nu
>
> Zar Fung of Ithaca, NY (Christian, how in the world did you mis-
>spell Ithaca? I thought you LIKED greek history.... :> ) came up
>with Jevon Garrett and myself to try out Warrior. He seems to have
>an innate grasp of the system that still eludes me. We were both
>very happy for him and the way he showed, especially considering
>that he had never played Hsuing Nu before - he had mainly practiced
>with Han Chinese before.
>
> Myself, I played with the Hohenstaufen list, and played poorly,
>leaving a couple of wins on the table and taking draws instead due
>to bad decisions. The one thing I was happy about was remembering
>to dismount my EHK and charge in the resulting EHI (after waiting 1
>bound, to cure my dismount disorder) into the Burmese elephants. I
>ended up pushing back the Burmese CinC elephant unit, and routing
>the other elephant unit just as time ran out on the game. I just
>wish I had played more quickly and decisively in my games -
>particularly against the Wallachians, I was very wishy washy and
>indecisive about my moves. Still got a lot to learn about
>Warrior....
>
>- Asif Chaudhry
>
>p.s. The Hohenstaufen list seems a bit out of wack - normally, you
>get plenty of decent foot in the full list from Feudal Warrior, but
>in Fast Warrior, you only get 1 LMI bow unit - the rest are 3 EHK
>and 2 LC units. Kind of makes it hard to put Mark Stone's "Knights
>are counter-punching units" theory to work when I don't have
>anything to really set up the initial punch with.......
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Chriss]

> Howdy,
>
> If someone forwards me the results for this event I'll put them on the
> NASAMW list.
>
> Zorntigonos Tetrophthalmos (also of Ithaca)
>


Hmmm...Very catchy nickname. I presume this means you wear glasses??? ;-)


Greek

[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

Yep, for 41 years and counting.

All my c-in-cs have variants of my name:
Kushites = Tazornka
Bedouin = Ibn abu Zurn
Babylonians = Nabuzornezzer
Hebrews = Zornyahu
Lydians = Zornyattes
Sea Peoples = Zorniath
Byzantines = Zornisarius
Hindus = Zornupta
Chinese = Tzorn-tzu
Crusaders = Zornwin of Jerusalem
Germans = Karl der Zorning
Iroquois = Zornawatha

In the original German Zorn = "anger".

JZ



At 04:05 PM 6/28/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> > Howdy,
> >
> > If someone forwards me the results for this event I'll put them on the
> > NASAMW list.
> >
> > Zorntigonos Tetrophthalmos (also of Ithaca)
> >
>
>
>Hmmm...Very catchy nickname. I presume this means you wear glasses???
>
>
>Greek


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> All Fast Warrior lists are getting reviewed as part of the
>revision, now that the main lists are out.

I didn't intend to be critical Jon - it was merely an observation.

Actually, I enjoyed having Irr B Italians to use with my Reg
Muslims - usually, the list rules prevent that in the full list, so
it was nice to see in the Fast Warrior list.

It also made the list MUCH more playable, as being able to ignore
that 1st cause of unease is crucial to having the Knights function
away from the CinC if necessary, which they sometimes have to,
having not many units to respond with.

In the main rules, as Irr C's, the Sicilians just have rough going
the whole way - the fact that besides the Knights, you only have the
LMI bow as a "steady, close or Loose order unit within 120 paces" to
provide support meant that you basically had to go in boot-to-boot,
using woods (or other very rough terrain) and the LMI bow to anchor
flanks. There is some scope for spreading out, as long as the CinC
was always advancing on the enemy and within range (causing
eagerness), but it makes it easier for savvy opponents to use their
knowledge of your limitations against you.

And don't even get me started on dismounting the Knights as EHI
that drop one morale class (to Irr D's - oy vey!). At least,
dismounting as Irr C's (from Irr B's) gave you a fighting chance.

No, the revised Sicilian list is definitely a step up in my book.

And actually, I don't have as huge a problem with the Burmese as
Jevon and Christian did - the massive numbers of Irr D LMI, with no
LI or LC, puts the burden on the Burmese player to keep those units
back so that the "cascading waver test" phenomenon doesn't unhinge
his entire force. Those 6 elephants are still pretty darn nasty
though.....

-Asif Chaudhry

[joncleaves]

I didn't take it as critical. Just saying that the lists were originally
written without the benefit of the list books being done.

Knights do not lose a morale class when they dismount.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:55:42 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> All Fast Warrior lists are getting reviewed as part of the
>revision, now that the main lists are out.

I didn't intend to be critical Jon - it was merely an observation.

Actually, I enjoyed having Irr B Italians to use with my Reg
Muslims - usually, the list rules prevent that in the full list, so
it was nice to see in the Fast Warrior list.

It also made the list MUCH more playable, as being able to ignore
that 1st cause of unease is crucial to having the Knights function
away from the CinC if necessary, which they sometimes have to,
having not many units to respond with.

In the main rules, as Irr C's, the Sicilians just have rough going
the whole way - the fact that besides the Knights, you only have the
LMI bow as a "steady, close or Loose order unit within 120 paces" to
provide support meant that you basically had to go in boot-to-boot,
using woods (or other very rough terrain) and the LMI bow to anchor
flanks. There is some scope for spreading out, as long as the CinC
was always advancing on the enemy and within range (causing
eagerness), but it makes it easier for savvy opponents to use their
knowledge of your limitations against you.

And don't even get me started on dismounting the Knights as EHI
that drop one morale class (to Irr D's - oy vey!). At least,
dismounting as Irr C's (from Irr B's) gave you a fighting chance.

No, the revised Sicilian list is definitely a step up in my book.

And actually, I don't have as huge a problem with the Burmese as
Jevon and Christian did - the massive numbers of Irr D LMI, with no
LI or LC, puts the burden on the Burmese player to keep those units
back so that the "cascading waver test" phenomenon doesn't unhinge
his entire force. Those 6 elephants are still pretty darn nasty
though.....

-Asif Chaudhry





Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Zorn <jrz3@c...> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> If someone forwards me the results for this event I'll put them on
the
> NASAMW list.

Hi Jeff. Due to the alternate scoring system employed (2 pts for
a win, 1 for a draw, 1 for a loss) for this tourney, the only
results really worth posting are the ones from Chris' original post,
mainly:

Final Result
1st Chris Cameron, Bactrian Greeks
2nd Greg Hauser, Sultanate of Delhi
3rd Cole Cioran, Wallachian

Best New Player: Zar Fung, Hsuing Nu

All of the other participants basically ended up with extremely
similar scores - Jevon actually had to do a bit of "strength of
opposition" calculations just to get the top 3!

-Asif Chaudhry

> Knights do not lose a morale class when they dismount.

<CRASH!!!!> <Loud noise of my jaw hitting the floor>

Uhh......could you please give me a page reference where I could
look that up? I would LOVE to know where that little crucial tidbit
has been hiding from me for the last 6 months.....

Thanks!
-Asif

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> That's awesome stuff, Christian. Very nice.
>
> I am curious why you didn't employ the normal Fast Warrior scoring
system (18.5)...?
>
> J

Hi Jon. Chris may have already replied offline to you about this,
but from my understanding, the simplified scoring system was put into
place because:

1.) A large percentage of new players (as in BRAND new) made up the
tourney - at least 30 percent.

2.) The hope/belief was that the "all or nothing" scoring would
encourage aggresiveness and discourage timidity/corner sitting. Chris
wanting people rushing about the field and "dying like Lions", to
borrow his favorite phrase (at least when talking to new players - he
may have many more favorite phrases that he saves for experienced
players).

-Asif Chaudhry

[joncleaves]

Interesting.

In normal scoring, having to kill four units in an hour to win has always
produced sufficient aggression in my experience... lol

-----Original Message-----
From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:09:44 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> That's awesome stuff, Christian. Very nice.
>
> I am curious why you didn't employ the normal Fast Warrior scoring
system (18.5)...?
>
> J

Hi Jon. Chris may have already replied offline to you about this,
but from my understanding, the simplified scoring system was put into
place because:

1.) A large percentage of new players (as in BRAND new) made up the
tourney - at least 30 percent.

2.) The hope/belief was that the "all or nothing" scoring would
encourage aggresiveness and discourage timidity/corner sitting. Chris
wanting people rushing about the field and "dying like Lions", to
borrow his favorite phrase (at least when talking to new players - he
may have many more favorite phrases that he saves for experienced
players).

-Asif Chaudhry






Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

From 6.61:

"Irregular cavalry or camelry that dismounts is treated as if one morale class
lower."

J

-----Original Message-----
From: shahadet_99 <shahadet_99@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:05:45 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Fast Warrior Tourny--Barrie, Ontario


> Knights do not lose a morale class when they dismount.

<CRASH!!!!> <Loud noise of my jaw hitting the floor>

Uhh......could you please give me a page reference where I could
look that up? I would LOVE to know where that little crucial tidbit
has been hiding from me for the last 6 months.....

Thanks!
-Asif







Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]