Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Rant mode on]
"and that the level of organisation was a good deal higher than in feudal
Europe"

Really?

Okay, I'm just going to say "insert arguement on nature of Norman Feudalism
here." I have trouble believing that anyone's feudalism, or even military
service, period, was as efficient. Do we have a Sassanid Persian assize of
arms? Did they color match their heraldry and saddle colors in centuries of 100
men? Do we know the enforcement policies? (For all I know, we do--and I'd love
to know, so there's nothing snide coming here. Damn e-mail and it's lack of
tone!) Why, oh why,is feudal europe the touchstone of poor military
performance?

Which Sassanid army cut its way to Caen? Because I'm pretty sure a Norman one
got to Jerusalem... (Cheap historical shot)[Rant mode off]

Tee hee,
Christian

>
>

[Craig Scott]

Cute--- Actually the Sassanian administrative system ruled from Spain
to the Spice Islands under the guys of the Arab Empire... Christian
be well buddy (o:

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Christian and Sarah
<cgc.sjw@s...> wrote:
>
> [Rant mode on]
> "and that the level of organisation was a good deal higher than in
feudal Europe"
>
> Really?
>
> Okay, I'm just going to say "insert arguement on nature of Norman
Feudalism here." I have trouble believing that anyone's feudalism,
or even military service, period, was as efficient. Do we have a
Sassanid Persian assize of arms? Did they color match their heraldry
and saddle colors in centuries of 100 men? Do we know the
enforcement policies? (For all I know, we do--and I'd love to know,
so there's nothing snide coming here. Damn e-mail and it's lack of
tone!) Why, oh why,is feudal europe the touchstone of poor military
performance?
>
> Which Sassanid army cut its way to Caen? Because I'm pretty sure a
Norman one got to Jerusalem... (Cheap historical shot)[Rant mode off]
>
> Tee hee,
> Christian
>
> >
> >
>

[Craig Scott]

The Sassanians invented heraldry and I don't think the Normans
established trading posts in SE Asia. I don't beleive the Normans
received tribute from the Romans and Byzantines while fighting in
central Asia, while receiving trade agreements with Korea. This is
silly Dave brought up the European "battle" analogy. I think we all
are talking apples and pomegranates. Although I would rather be under
the care of 5th century Persian doctor ("doctor" is a Persian word)
than an 11th century Norman physician (o:

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Christian and Sarah
<cgc.sjw@s...> wrote:
>
> [Rant mode on]
> "and that the level of organisation was a good deal higher than in
feudal Europe"
>
> Really?
>
> Okay, I'm just going to say "insert arguement on nature of Norman
Feudalism here." I have trouble believing that anyone's feudalism,
or even military service, period, was as efficient. Do we have a
Sassanid Persian assize of arms? Did they color match their heraldry
and saddle colors in centuries of 100 men? Do we know the
enforcement policies? (For all I know, we do--and I'd love to know,
so there's nothing snide coming here. Damn e-mail and it's lack of
tone!) Why, oh why,is feudal europe the touchstone of poor military
performance?
>
> Which Sassanid army cut its way to Caen? Because I'm pretty sure a
Norman one got to Jerusalem... (Cheap historical shot)[Rant mode off]
>
> Tee hee,
> Christian
>
> >
> >
>

[Greg Regets]

My only real purpose for this string, was to look for some additional
historical works. I didn't really want to trash the Sassanid army ...
the Byzantines did that frequently enough. ;-)

What about the writings of that very well thought of Byzantine period
writer, who writes with admiration about the wealth of an empire (the
Sassanids) that is able to uniformly outfit such large bodies of
cavalry? Obviously that is heavily paraphrased, but on point.

As a complete aside, I think the Sassanid list would have been better
served, were it divided into several sub-lists to match what it
historically fielded against various opponents. A good example would be
vs. Early/Maurikian Byzantine period opponents, where there is a wealth
of period works available ... and none of them mention elephants. True,
players can choose to avoid buying them, but there is nothing that
keeps them from doing so ... and isn't that what army lists are
supposed to do?

To use an example: There are a ton of Byzantine lists, covering quite
some period of time. Imagine if all the Byzantine lists were crammed
into one, giving almost all options to all people. What you would end
up with, is the Sassanid list. ;-)

Peace ... g

> ("doctor" is a Persian word)

gee - and I learned at school, that it was a Latin word, deriving
from doctorus - (from docere - teaching) meaning studied or trained
one...
Didn't know that the Sassanids spoke Latin ;o)

cheers, Michael

--
greymouse@...
http://www.fallout.de/greymouse

[Dave Lauerman]

This is
> silly Dave brought up the European "battle" analogy. I think we all
> are talking apples and pomegranates.

Oh, now you've done it. Silly? SILLY!?!?! ME!?!?!

OK, fair enough. sorry. dave

Cuyler Young (check him out in the Cambridge Ancient Histories--he wrote
all the Ach. Persian stuff--big name in his field) thinks that the
Irano/Scythians of the 7th C. BC invented heraldry. Craig, that's not a
shot at you or the Sassanids--I guess my point is that many people in
many cultures had the notion of "uniforming" their nobles in a manner
now deemed "heraldic."

Great article and arguement, and I look forward to some serious
cultural relativism over a beer. Perhaps at CWs?

Yours,
Christian

>
>

[Craig Scott]

Actually you are probably right, what I should have (fatigue)said is
they are probably the first to use it as an imperial ordanace. Craig

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Christian and Sarah
<cgc.sjw@s...> wrote:
>
> Cuyler Young (check him out in the Cambridge Ancient Histories--he
wrote
> all the Ach. Persian stuff--big name in his field) thinks that the
> Irano/Scythians of the 7th C. BC invented heraldry. Craig, that's
not a
> shot at you or the Sassanids--I guess my point is that many people
in
> many cultures had the notion of "uniforming" their nobles in a
manner
> now deemed "heraldic."
>
> Great article and arguement, and I look forward to some
serious
> cultural relativism over a beer. Perhaps at CWs?
>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
> >
> >
>

[Craig Scott]

the Indo-European base *dok-/*dek-, which also gave us Greek dokein `
enjoy...
Actually yes the both sides borrowed each other words and fraises
Craig (Good night...)
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Greymouse <greymouse@f...> wrote:
>
> > ("doctor" is a Persian word)
>
> gee - and I learned at school, that it was a Latin word, deriving
> from doctorus - (from docere - teaching) meaning studied or trained
> one...
> Didn't know that the Sassanids spoke Latin ;o)
>
> cheers, Michael
>
> --
> greymouse@f...
> http://www.fallout.de/greymouse
>

[Craig Scott]

Brother, I hear you, originally I proposed three period lists with
differently constructed regional troops, like the Romans or other
large empires... Yes both sides kicked but at different times. But
who copied the army structure, court structure, governmental and
trade structure. How was paying the gold most of the time...
Pooped Craig is going to bed zzzzzzzzz


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets" <greg.regets@g...>
wrote:
>
> My only real purpose for this string, was to look for some
additional
> historical works. I didn't really want to trash the Sassanid
army ...
> the Byzantines did that frequently enough.
>
> What about the writings of that very well thought of Byzantine
period
> writer, who writes with admiration about the wealth of an empire
(the
> Sassanids) that is able to uniformly outfit such large bodies of
> cavalry? Obviously that is heavily paraphrased, but on point.
>
> As a complete aside, I think the Sassanid list would have been
better
> served, were it divided into several sub-lists to match what it
> historically fielded against various opponents. A good example
would be
> vs. Early/Maurikian Byzantine period opponents, where there is a
wealth
> of period works available ... and none of them mention elephants.
True,
> players can choose to avoid buying them, but there is nothing that
> keeps them from doing so ... and isn't that what army lists are
> supposed to do?
>
> To use an example: There are a ton of Byzantine lists, covering
quite
> some period of time. Imagine if all the Byzantine lists were
crammed
> into one, giving almost all options to all people. What you would
end
> up with, is the Sassanid list.
>
> Peace ... g
>

The Normans have Nukes, and the Persians are about to.

----- Original Message -----
From: "craigshar2" <craigshar@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Feudal Europe


> the Indo-European base *dok-/*dek-, which also gave us Greek dokein `
> enjoy...
> Actually yes the both sides borrowed each other words and fraises
> Craig (Good night...)
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Greymouse <greymouse@f...> wrote:
>>
>> > ("doctor" is a Persian word)
>>
>> gee - and I learned at school, that it was a Latin word, deriving
>> from doctorus - (from docere - teaching) meaning studied or trained
>> one...
>> Didn't know that the Sassanids spoke Latin ;o)
>>
>> cheers, Michael
>>
>> --
>> greymouse@f...
>> http://www.fallout.de/greymouse
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
>
>

[Bill Chriss]

> the Indo-European base *dok-/*dek-, which also gave us Greek dokein `
> enjoy...
> Actually yes the both sides borrowed each other words and fraises
> Craig (Good night...)


Hmmm...But dokein means 'to seem'. I don't see the connection


-Greek