Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Don Coon]

JonCleaves@... wrote:

<<My unit could not begin to form a testudo and move as a cohesive mass
at anything resembling our tactical move.>>
>
> Your "unit" (I smell SCA here) surely could make 80 yards in 15 minutes, I
bet. I do not equate testudo to the armor worn by SHI or to full exhaustion.

You are right, and I agree (armor is not very encumbering anyway once
you get used to wearing it. I was only illustrating a non testudo
capable group.

> <<Historian Jon - do you think the Romans moved at ALL times in testudo?>>
>
> Nope. But they did when near massed archers.

I beleive you.

> <<Gamer Jon - Why would a Warrior Roman unit so allowed ever NOT be in testudo
(except when the rules make him come out).>>
>
> Don't know.

> << I for one will be claiming testudo in bound 2 as my
> first formation change in the advance phase. This is broken. >>
>
> So you feel. The FH and the greater majority of warrior players do not agree.
Testudo has worked this way and cost nothing extra since at least 1988.
> It is NOT broken.

Peace. I will probably learn when and when not testudo is good.

> <<Designer Jon - Testudo for free? Wow? Lets look at some numbers.>>
>
> Yes, let's. Testudo HI are harder to shoot in some situations than
non-testudo. So are skirmishing LHI harder to shoot than non-skirmishing.
Want to make skirmishing cost more?

No, and you may have oversimplifies here. All LHI (missile armed) can
skirmish. That is why it does not have to cost more.

>How much of a playtesting delay do we want to incur? How much are we going to
charge for testudo? What about the thousands of games since 1988 that say its
no big deal? Why shouldn't we charge for skirmish? How much should that cost?
How much playtesting will that incur?

All your points are valid. You in the end must (and have) decide on
playtest bog downs vs return on time invested.

> <<Designer Jon - Goals of your game? Balance? Flavor? You asked me to play
test. I feel part of my job as such is to point out rules holes. >>
>
> It is. You have given us your version, as have many others. In the end, we
have to make some hard (and some easy!) decisions. You are doing exactly what
you are supposed to be doing. In fact, you and your group have given us more
than just about anyone. In this particular case, we do not agree.

Cool. Disagreement is not bad, it breeds better results in the end.

> <I know from the posts on this subject and my own group there are many who
feel testudo is too cheap.>>
>
> Not all the emails we get are public (by far they are NOT). It is also NOT
majority rules, although a majority all saying one thing does hold sway.
Typically, the most vocal are those whose views are not currently in force.

Peace. Lack of data on my end led to poor conclusions.

> <<Know that no matter what happens, I will continue to play this fine
> game, and I do thank you for the opportunity to shape it. I know some
> of my comments have brought about changes (however small), and some have
> resulted in no change. That is a play testers lot, and I am comfortable
> with it.>>
>
> See above. You guys have been huge, and the preface to the rues will so
state.

Thanks. Subject complete (as far as I am concerned).

Don