Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[scott holder]

I actually have this army in 25mm and played it back in the 1994 Hoplite Theme.
My list is based around the old WRG list with NASAMW revisions.

First, I purchased the minimum hoplites, 72 figs. I had two units, one 48 figs,
the other 24. Each unit was Reg B with 1E of Reg A, no uneasy issues to deal
with. Uparmoring them depends on who you talk to. I went with MI. I like the
48 fig unit only because of the mobile terrain feature aspect of it. OTOH, in a
wide open contest, that unit also makes an inviting target to certain troop
types. Todd K would have you believe every EHC of HC on the planet would be
launching itself at them, I feel that every EL and SHK will launch itself at
them. Yes, armies with Moogs will find them an inviting target as well. Going
with two 32 fig units provides some more movement flexibility but less staying
power to possibly shake off the expected EL/SHK charges. FWIW, I don't agree
with Don's 4E unit model but then that simply reflects radically different
playing styles. You could go with the same concept (Reg B with 1E of Reg A) in
the 4E model and obviously get the "ignore unease" affects. Which you choose
reflects how you play and prosecute a battle.

Since we were playing at 1600pts, I went with as many Syracusan Gauls and
Spaniards I had figures for. Tons of shock there and I wished I'd had more
figs. For that matter, consider a Syracusan list as well also because of the 4H
LCh in it.

The shieldless cav does have it's uses. Again, if you can set things up well,
they make good "forlorn hope" pinning troops to use against Moogs (and their
ilk), then you can go in next bound with hoplites, etc. This is how Don
outlined it in his email. Jon and I used this to great effect at Doubles this
year at Cold Wars.

As Don mentioned, woods appear to be your best flank protecting terrain and like
Don, sticking those LI JLS, Sh guys in there will buy you enough time in a timed
game to win or lose elsewhere.

In the old list, you get four 16 fig full service peltasts (60 figs) I'd max
out these as well since they give you loads of options, particularly if you get
your terrain.

Again, all my comments are about 25mm. I'd see this army radically different in
15mm.

And army size will make a difference. You mentioned 1200 points. In some ways,
I think this makes a better army at that size than at 1600 pts because most late
medieval lists at that size just don't feel they have the SHK to toss around on
slightly problematic charges into LTS. I feel where you come up real short is
against cav armies where everyone has a bow, a jls and a shield. You'll get
pinned and the other guy can attempt to screen most of your hoplites and attempt
to pick off/shootup everything else. And you have little to drive off that crap
and your cav will be at a great disadvantage in just about any standard
encounter. That's where on paper the Syracusan list and it's LCh appear to be a
better bet. We faced Syracusans at Doubles at Cold Wars 2002 when using
Spanish. We won but it wasn't as easy as you might have expected, mainly
because of the 4H LCh yo-yoing with peltasts. Ewan's remarked in the past that
when Aztecs were all the rage in England, everybody started bringing Syracusans
as a counter.

Scott

Again appologies for not snipping.
yes, as you've outlined Scott, this is the typical hoplite doctrine I've been
familiar with. I'm talking 25mm as well. I ran Syracusan for about a year and
liked it, but I thought you could have either Spanish or Gauls not both; still
only gamed to survive, and most games ended with no clear victory either way. I
used to run a WW down the flank and put all (6?) heavy boltshooters on boats to
maintain one flank; that worked well, but the other flank often suffered from
the enemy doubling his forces in that sector :)

I agree with your assesment on crap mounted opponants, as back in the day
Ottomans were the killer de jure. It seems there has to be a way to increase
the number of hoplites in the army while still maintaining a certain level of
endurance. Ive considered the large 48 blocks, but my success with large units
is not good.

Yes in Florida we play 1200pt, and my hope is to be able to shut down the board
enough to make people face a wall of LTS, however as you say EL and SHK are
popular weapons platforms I need to find an answer to. THANKS
Wanax

"Holder, Scott" <Scott.Holder@...> wrote:
I actually have this army in 25mm and played it back in the 1994 Hoplite Theme.
My list is based around the old WRG list with NASAMW revisions.

First, I purchased the minimum hoplites, 72 figs. I had two units, one 48 figs,
the other 24. Each unit was Reg B with 1E of Reg A, no uneasy issues to deal
with. Uparmoring them depends on who you talk to. I went with MI. I like the
48 fig unit only because of the mobile terrain feature aspect of it. OTOH, in a
wide open contest, that unit also makes an inviting target to certain troop
types. Todd K would have you believe every EHC of HC on the planet would be
launching itself at them, I feel that every EL and SHK will launch itself at
them. Yes, armies with Moogs will find them an inviting target as well. Going
with two 32 fig units provides some more movement flexibility but less staying
power to possibly shake off the expected EL/SHK charges. FWIW, I don't agree
with Don's 4E unit model but then that simply reflects radically different
playing styles. You could go with the same concept (Reg B with 1E of Reg A) in
the 4E model and obviously get the "ignore unease"
affects. Which you choose reflects how you play and prosecute a battle.

Since we were playing at 1600pts, I went with as many Syracusan Gauls and
Spaniards I had figures for. Tons of shock there and I wished I'd had more
figs. For that matter, consider a Syracusan list as well also because of the 4H
LCh in it.

The shieldless cav does have it's uses. Again, if you can set things up well,
they make good "forlorn hope" pinning troops to use against Moogs (and their
ilk), then you can go in next bound with hoplites, etc. This is how Don
outlined it in his email. Jon and I used this to great effect at Doubles this
year at Cold Wars.

As Don mentioned, woods appear to be your best flank protecting terrain and like
Don, sticking those LI JLS, Sh guys in there will buy you enough time in a timed
game to win or lose elsewhere.

In the old list, you get four 16 fig full service peltasts (60 figs) I'd max
out these as well since they give you loads of options, particularly if you get
your terrain.

Again, all my comments are about 25mm. I'd see this army radically different in
15mm.

And army size will make a difference. You mentioned 1200 points. In some ways,
I think this makes a better army at that size than at 1600 pts because most late
medieval lists at that size just don't feel they have the SHK to toss around on
slightly problematic charges into LTS. I feel where you come up real short is
against cav armies where everyone has a bow, a jls and a shield. You'll get
pinned and the other guy can attempt to screen most of your hoplites and attempt
to pick off/shootup everything else. And you have little to drive off that crap
and your cav will be at a great disadvantage in just about any standard
encounter. That's where on paper the Syracusan list and it's LCh appear to be a
better bet. We faced Syracusans at Doubles at Cold Wars 2002 when using
Spanish. We won but it wasn't as easy as you might have expected, mainly
because of the 4H LCh yo-yoing with peltasts. Ewan's remarked in the past that
when Aztecs were all the rage in England, everybody
started bringing Syracusans as a counter.

Scott

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[Don Coon]

> First, I purchased the minimum hoplites, 72 figs. I had two units, one 48
figs, the other 24. Each unit was Reg B with 1E of Reg A, no uneasy issues
to deal with. Uparmoring them depends on who you talk to. I went with MI.
I like the 48 fig unit only because of the mobile terrain feature aspect of
it. OTOH, in a wide open contest, that unit also makes an inviting target
to certain troop types. Todd K would have you believe every EHC of HC on
the planet would be launching itself at them, I feel that every EL and SHK
will launch itself at them. Yes, armies with Moogs will find them an
inviting target as well. Going with two 32 fig units provides some more
movement flexibility but less staying power to possibly shake off the
expected EL/SHK charges. FWIW, I don't agree with Don's 4E unit model but
then that simply reflects radically different playing styles. You could go
with the same concept (Reg B with 1E of Reg A) in the 4E model and obviously
get the "ignore unease" affects. Which you choose reflects how you play and
prosecute a battle.

Nice comments. I will add them to my Hoplite mental file. Cool approach.

BTW all my comments were for 25mm as well.

Don