Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

So I was originally building an army for a small tourney that Terry
Dix was running (800pts) but since I was unable to make that I'm at a
loss for what the actual points size most events/tourneys use.

Can someone give me an idea of how large an list I should be
generally building for my First Warrior army...this is 15mm scale.

I put together a rough sample list for 1200pts so any feedback would
be useful as I am at the early painting and miniature ordering stage.

Later Crusader

CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
5E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -180
Command Factor - 25
Total - 350

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
Command Factor - 25
Total - 145

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
Command Factor - 25
Total - 145

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

= 1124 (no idea what to do with the rest

Or I was going to remove one crossbow unit and add another knight
unit for 216pts but that puts me 19 over ( I don't know how overages
work in this game).

Any advice on army construction or tactics would be great. I am NOT a
WRG 7th veteran either so there are whole concepts in Warrior I still
know nothing about.

-Brinton

Greetings Brinton,
off the top of my head, I would trim the knight units to no more than 4 elements
perhaps 2. Your foot may want to be larger to better absorb CPF. shoot for
1600 pts. That seems to be a popular number.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Brinton" <brwilliams@a...> wrote:
> So I was originally building an army for a small tourney that Terry
> Dix was running (800pts) but since I was unable to make that I'm at a
> loss for what the actual points size most events/tourneys use.
>
> Can someone give me an idea of how large an list I should be
> generally building for my First Warrior army...this is 15mm scale.
>
> I put together a rough sample list for 1200pts so any feedback would
> be useful as I am at the early painting and miniature ordering stage.
>
> Later Crusader
>
> CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
> 5E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -180
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 350
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 145
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 145
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> = 1124 (no idea what to do with the rest
>
> Or I was going to remove one crossbow unit and add another knight
> unit for 216pts but that puts me 19 over ( I don't know how overages
> work in this game).
>
> Any advice on army construction or tactics would be great. I am NOT a
> WRG 7th veteran either so there are whole concepts in Warrior I still
> know nothing about.
>
> -Brinton

[John Murphy]

Check in the back of the rulebook under the table sizes etcetera I
think general guidelines for point totals are there (certainly I
remember them in the revised 12/14 on this list).

1200 is a "mini", 1600 is the basic, 2000 is for doubles

From your list, not sure but perhaps you might also find a look at
the "recommended unit sizes" in the rules helpful.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Brinton" <brwilliams@a...>
wrote:
> So I was originally building an army for a small tourney that
Terry
> Dix was running (800pts) but since I was unable to make that I'm
at a
> loss for what the actual points size most events/tourneys use.
>
> Can someone give me an idea of how large an list I should be
> generally building for my First Warrior army...this is 15mm scale.
>
> I put together a rough sample list for 1200pts so any feedback
would
> be useful as I am at the early painting and miniature ordering
stage.
>
> Later Crusader
>
> CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
> 5E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -180
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 350
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 145
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 120
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 145
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> = 1124 (no idea what to do with the rest
>
> Or I was going to remove one crossbow unit and add another knight
> unit for 216pts but that puts me 19 over ( I don't know how
overages
> work in this game).
>
> Any advice on army construction or tactics would be great. I am
NOT a
> WRG 7th veteran either so there are whole concepts in Warrior I
still
> know nothing about.
>
> -Brinton

> From your list, not sure but perhaps you might also find a look at
> the "recommended unit sizes" in the rules helpful.

I guess choosing 6 Elements for each unit size gave away the fact I had
no idea about that section of the book. I'll look for it when I get
home from work tonight.

Thanks for the help so far...I'll revise.

-Brinton

Okay, so lets try this again. Upped the point value to 1600...took
Terry's advice and lowered the size of the knight units and attempted
to bring in some knightly order knights (the real reason I even
wanted to start this army).

Let me know about any suggestions, rule breaks, etc...

CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
3E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -108
Command Factor - 25
Total - 278

2E Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH - 72
Command Factor - 25
Total - 97

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
Command Factor - 25
Total - 109

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
Command Factor - 25
Total - 109

8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
Command Factor - 25
Total - 185

8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
Command Factor - 25
Total - 185

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

Military Order Subgeneral - 88
3E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 126
Command Factor - 10
Total - 224

4E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 168
Command Factor - 10
Total - 178

-Total- 1607 pts

Thanks again for the help

Brinton

[Steve Hollowell]

I would suggest adding some Light Infantry for a screening force.. Too easy to
get those big foot units pinned by something you would have to use knights to
run off.

Brinton <brwilliams@...> wrote:Okay, so lets try this again. Upped
the point value to 1600...took
Terry's advice and lowered the size of the knight units and attempted
to bring in some knightly order knights (the real reason I even
wanted to start this army).

Let me know about any suggestions, rule breaks, etc...

CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
3E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -108
Command Factor - 25
Total - 278

2E Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH - 72
Command Factor - 25
Total - 97

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
Command Factor - 25
Total - 109

6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
Command Factor - 25
Total - 109

8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
Command Factor - 25
Total - 185

8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
Command Factor - 25
Total - 185

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
Command Factor - 25
Total - 121

Military Order Subgeneral - 88
3E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 126
Command Factor - 10
Total - 224

4E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 168
Command Factor - 10
Total - 178

-Total- 1607 pts

Thanks again for the help

Brinton




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[John Murphy]

Maybe one of the "list gurus" would chime in with something here.

Meantime I will offer an opinion from not the greatest player or
list designer, but worth what you paid for it...

I'm not enamored of LI, at least in copious amounts, for this type
of army unless you can get it with shields and us it to charge the
HK through into stuck enemies - but not a common enough occurance to
be worth it on its own in my opinion.

The Turcoples I like just the way you have them. You might find, if
you can squeeze it in, that having some smaller units of military
order LC along with these works out.

But I would note - at 1600 points you need to have a decent number
of shock units (not troops, units) in this type of army. Right now,
you only have 4 knights units and being HK (the single EHK element
upgrade is of nearly absolutely no use by itself in a unit that
large) you will find that is a bit short even in a much better
skirmishing army let alone crusaders. I run a (different army)
pretty good skirmishing army with only 6 units of HK plus a 7th unit
of lancer cav and it is way short on oomph - and like many of yours
all those are Irreg A troops. So I expect having only 4 HK units you
will quickly discover to be unsatisfactory unless you have some
other shock units or an army aligned along different tactics. That
is the reason for using smaller knight units. It is extremely rare
to see anything but 2E knight units in Warrior just so you can the
most number of seperate units. 4E are not unheard-of but almost so
and usually there is a very particular reason for it which I do not
see here. Irreg A HK in large units are going to be juicy expensive
targets plain and simple. With more and smaller units you get more
charges to execute causing possibly more enemy waver tests, more
rolls to go long in a charge and catch something, more combat rolls
to have chance to roll up and reap the reward of Irreg A troops, the
list goes on and on. For the regulars (the brethren) being smaller
units may make them able to manuever and fit into spots where they
can execute flank charges (nice for HK) etcetera which otherwise
they might not.

While I would do the foot differently, maybe mix the front rank LTS
and rear rank CB if the list will permit it, the way you have it
might not be bad although it is lot of points in units that while
not bad if used well are also not world-beaters. The crossbowmen
will have a lot of firepower against some kinds of troops but really
suprisingly little effect on some others and meanwhile anything on
foot which gets near them is going to eat them for breakfast, 240
points worth of breakfast, causing you be waver testing everyone
around them. So yeah they could work against some stuff but you
would have to be very careful as they are slow and difficult to
manuever out of harms way. The spearmen are okay in a short game as
defensive troops although some uber-foot are still going to run
right over them.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Brinton" <brwilliams@a...>
wrote:
> Okay, so lets try this again. Upped the point value to 1600...took
> Terry's advice and lowered the size of the knight units and
attempted
> to bring in some knightly order knights (the real reason I even
> wanted to start this army).
>
> Let me know about any suggestions, rule breaks, etc...
>
> CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
> 3E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -108
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 278
>
> 2E Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH - 72
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 97
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109
>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> Military Order Subgeneral - 88
> 3E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 126
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 224
>
> 4E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 168
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 178
>
> -Total- 1607 pts
>
> Thanks again for the help
>
> Brinton

[Mark Stone]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Brinton" <brwilliams@a...> wrote:
>
> Okay, so lets try this again. Upped the point value to 1600...took
> Terry's advice and lowered the size of the knight units and
attempted
> to bring in some knightly order knights (the real reason I even
> wanted to start this army).
>
> Let me know about any suggestions, rule breaks, etc...
>
> CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
> 3E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -108
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 278

If a general is in a unit of more than 2 elements, then the general's unit is
not eligible for staff moves. So make this the 2 element unit, and the one
below the four element unit.

>
> 2E Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH - 72
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 97
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109

The light cav, as you have it, is fine. Might be good to throw in a 4 figure
unit of regular light cav as Military Order Turcopoles. They are good for force
marching, flank marching, and threatening flank charges against a careless
opponent.

>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121

OK, the above four units are where you have problems, but then this is where
everyone has problems with this list. The LTS guys are not terrible, but as HI
they are pretty expensive for mediocre line troops. The shieldless CB guys are
just awful; these are guys waiting to die. I believe at least half of all this
can be downgraded to MI, and I believe that some can be downgraded to D class.

So you have a couple of choices. You can run the crossbow in a mixed unit with
the LTS guys. If so, you want two 8 stand units of 4 stands HI LTS S and 4
stands MI CB. You can spread out to be 4 stands wide and 2 deep, with the CB
shooting from behind the LTS (this is a fairly solid tactic against mounted),
or you can contract to 2 stands wide and 4 deep with 2 full ranks of LTS in the
front (this is a fairly solid tactic against enemy foot).

Alternatively, you buy the absolute minimum of crossbowmen, downgrade them as
much as you possibly can, put them all in one unit, pay 10 points for a ditch,
stick them behind the ditch and leave them there. They can anchor a flank
reasonably well this way, as it'll take your opponent several bounds to kill
them.

>
> Military Order Subgeneral - 88
> 3E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 126
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 224
>
> 4E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 168
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 178

Knights are more useful in 2 stand units than 4 stand units. It only costs you
20 points to turn the above from 2 units into 4, so I'd do that.

I'd take at least some light infantry. John Murphy is right, that without
shields it isn't great, but a couple of 6 stand units is only going to cost you
around 100 points and could do a lot to provide additional screen and stretch
your line out.


-Mark Stone

I'll give it another try.

Make the knight units smaller (defintley the military order and CinC's
unit) so that I can get more of them.
Do something different with the infantry.
Buy up some light troops.
Get some Military Order Led Turcopoles.

I'll see what I can come up with now.

Thanks,

-Brinton

Greetings Brinton,
can you upgrade any of your HK to EHK? if so I would do that on the front ranks
on some of them.

That CB unit is a bit undersized and will get Hammered in a firefight.
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Brinton" <brwilliams@a...> wrote:
> Okay, so lets try this again. Upped the point value to 1600...took
> Terry's advice and lowered the size of the knight units and attempted
> to bring in some knightly order knights (the real reason I even
> wanted to start this army).
>
> Let me know about any suggestions, rule breaks, etc...
>
> CinC - Upgrade to EHK - 145
> 3E - Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH -108
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 278
>
> 2E Outremer Knights - Irr A HK L SH - 72
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 97
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109
>
> 6E - Outremer Led Turkopoles - Irr C LC L B SH - 84
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 109
>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 8E - Foot Sergeants - Irr C HI LTS S - 160
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 185
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> 6E - Foot Sergeants - Irr c HI CB - 96
> Command Factor - 25
> Total - 121
>
> Military Order Subgeneral - 88
> 3E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 126
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 224
>
> 4E - Military Order Brother Knights - Reg A HK - 168
> Command Factor - 10
> Total - 178
>
> -Total- 1607 pts
>
> Thanks again for the help
>
> Brinton