Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

Scott Holder has just informed me that from Hcon 2006 on all tournament
games will be moved from the Lampeter to the Showroom directly upstairs! We
were up there a few years back, and those who were there will well remember
the poor lighting and inadequate space arrangements. This is an absolutely
horrible situation, and we are the only ones who can affect the final outcome.

Below are several letters that have been sent to the Hcon director on this
matter. The first is Scott's (with much background data), the second mine,
the third is from Steve Roper of the US Pike and Shot guys, the 4th is
from. Please do not forward these back to the Hcon leadership directly.
Please take a little time to take this information and craft something in
your own words that will make HMGS-E Hcon leadership sit up and take
notice. This is an important matter. We absolutely need to deluge the Hcon
board with hundreds of letters expressing our dissatisfaction with this
situation (I'd call it a betrayal). If you have friends who are not part of
NASAMW or HMGS-E, but who still attend Hcon, please ask them to respond to
this situation as well. Here are the names and email addresses of the Hcon
leadership. Please send your emails to all of them:

Fred Hubig = Director
Pete Panzeri
Bill Rutherford
James Curtis
James Mattes
Fred Haub
Jim Birdseye

frdhubig@...,
peterpanzeri@...,
worj@...,
jamescurtis04@...,
vojvoda13@...,
vpconops@...,
jbirdseye000@...

Thanks for your help,
Jeff Zorn
================================

Here's a copy of my letter back to the Hcon Director and the Board on this
matter. Note there's an out (adequate lighting) but the Host has *never*
shown any desire to fix poor lighting in a way that we can use. Here goes:

Obviously I, and most of the 300+ tournament players who come to shop and
play in tourneys, do see being moved to the Showroom as being treated as
the bastard, red-headed step child of the hobby, despite being the biggest
customer base, the most reliable in terms of attendance and one that
offloads a significant amount of admin work from the convention staff. You
will not find me amenable to this proposed move although it was
expected. Note I've CC'd the Board. This is a *big* step you guys are
taking and I can guarantee you it's gonna piss off more than just a few
paying customers.

I would argue that the Showroom is better suited for the odd size games
that you use as a reason for moving us out of Lampeter. Tournament play
best utilized available space by having rows in blocks, precisely how I've
layed out Lampeter. The Showroom doesn't not allow this, except for the
stage and some space in front of the stage. Remember, I've layed out floor
plans in both. I'm intimately familiar with how each room works. Space is
more efficiently utilized with tourneys in Lampeter, not in the
Showroom. Period.

Moreover, given the lighting (I'll come back to that), the Showroom is
better for individual games on individual (and odd sized) tables. This is
because the lighting is somewhat focused in spots. Thus, let's say I lay
out a row of 4 tables. Two of those tables will have *adequate* lighting,
the others will not. If you run games in the Showroom, you can lay out
tables where the lighting works best and not have to worry about those
copious amounts of shadow areas around those tables. Can't do that in
tournaments since all that "extra" space you're telling me about is, in
effect, totally unuseable.

Okay, lighting. The Showroom *might* work for us (even with the
inefficient use of space) if lighting were adequate. It's
not. Period. Tourneys have been in the Showroom twice. The first time
was with the lighting exactly the way it was at this past Hcon--believe me,
as soon as I heard you'd been given Hcon, I knew we'd be moved into the
Showroom. As such, I spent a lot of time up there studying the existing
lighting. For tournament play, it sucks, big time, which I'm sure is why
we're being put in there.

You are correct in remembering that the Showroom does have certain
advantages for us, it's quiet, it's spacious and if we have all of it, I
*can* make the room work floor-plan wise despite it's limitations. But,
and this is the big but, if the lighting were as good there as in Lampeter,
we wouldn't be having this conversation because we wouldn't be moved into
what is perceived, quite correctly, as a second class area. However,
lighting is *the* number 1 environmental factor in tournament gaming. The
second year we were in there, the Host did put up some auxiliary
lighting. It still sucked big time. And I don't see the Host doing what
it takes between now and Hcon to install lighting or have the proper type
and amount of auxiliary lighting to make the Showroom useable for
tournament gaming. Or at least showing me they have the proper type and
amount of lighting. I remember quite well the second time we were in
there, they talked up the extra lighting they were going to use. It didn't
help. I had 40+ guys on the stage with pounding headaches because of the
auxiliary lighting, I had guys forced to play in the dark because of the
lighting.

So, while you can go to the Host and ensure additional lighting, if they do
what they did last time, it'll still suck. And I seriously doubt they can
do up lighting on a test basis so that they could show me that they've got
what it takes to adequately light that room for tournament play.

Thems my thoughts.

scott
================================

Dear Mr. Hubig,

I am absolutely appalled to learn that the HMGS-E Board of Directors has
directed you to exile us tournament games to the horrendously poorly lit
and spatially unsuitable Showroom. It is well known to us that certain
members of the Board have long desired to eliminate historical tournaments
from HMGS-E events, and this can only be seen as the first salvo in a new
round of attacks.

What is especially irritating is that HMGS-E has hardly to lift a finger,
beyond providing us with this space, to see hundreds of historical gamers
enjoying themselves. We sign people up for games, run them, and hand out
the prizes. I simply can't believe that the reward we get for being so low
maintenance is to be shafted in this way.

My membership in HMGS-E expired this last year, and I had planned on
renewing it. I really don't see the point if our "leadership" is going to
go to such lengths to disenfranchise us. Give us back the Lampeter!

Jeff Zorn
NASAMW Secretary
================================

Good afternoon members of the Board,

I'm Steve Roper and run the Pike and Shot tournaments at Cold Wars and
Historicon. At Historicon Scott Holder and I were talking about room
layout options for next year and he informed me that there was some
thought to moving us out of the Lampeter room and into the Showroom.
I'm writing to let you know how ill advised I think this is.

I've been playing in tournaments at Lancaster since the old "Tennis
Barn" days and running them off and on since the early 80s. Tournament
gaming is an important and legitimate branch of the hobby - lets face
it, it also sells a lot of lead. As I looked around the Lampeter room
last month I was pleased by the density of gaming. The room was far
more heavily used in my opinion than the Distlefink.

Looking at my signup sheets I find that I had a total of 34 players in
my 3 events with the tables in use for 12 hours, 5 hours and 10 hours
depending on the event. My guys show up like clockwork, pay their entry
fee (as do I - I don't claim any gamemaster special entry deal) and
shove lead around for three days straight. We don't ask for much - some
6 foot and 8 foot tables and good lighting - that's it. We have a spot
that people know where to find us, which is essential given the problems
I had with the PEL and website errors this year.

We put on a good show. Most of what we do is 25mm and is a nice
showcase for our particular segment of the hobby.

I've been to the showroom and even ran a tournament there one year.
It's dark. The layout is problematic for a cohesive tournament. The
lighting, even the temporary stuff gave me a headache. Bluntly it
wasn't a good location for us.

What's the pressure to move what is a very successful, well subscribed
event anyway?

I urge you to stop this effort. I don't want to have to tell my gamers
that they are being shoved off into a dark corner.

Thanks for your attention to this,

Steve Roper

================================

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board and Officers,

I am writing this note to object to the moving of the NASAMW tournements
from the Lampeter Room at Historicon into the Showroom. I've been
faithfully attending most of the HMGS cons for the last 10-15 years, and my
main reason to go is the NASAMW events. Furthermore, I am running a
tournement for the new rules Warmaster Ancients, which is going to be a very
big draw, and in that capacity it is clear to me that the showroom will have
an adverse affect on the tournements and all the NASAMW events. It has poor
lighting that is inconsistent over the space, it is cramped in many places
and hard to move around. Also, it is not a pleasant room, period. Plus its
location upstairs discourages visitors, which helps with NASAMW events and
therefore with getting gamers active and involved.

Like them or not, tournements are a big draw and a huge motivator for gamers
to buy figures / terrain / paints, build huge armies, and then show up and
play for days on end. Ask the vendors who the big purchasers are of figures
and such - bet you nearly all of them will tell you that the group that buys
the most and in the largest amounts are the tournement players.

Our events not only attract hundreds of members, giving them that final
reason to make the journey from distant places, but is not even a drain on
HMGS staff because we run nearly everything ourselves! If you add up all
the games played by the many members in the various tournements, you are
talking about literally HUNDREDS of games played by hundreds of gamers.

I encourage, beg and plead with you to reverse this decision, it is a bad
one and you will find literally hundreds of angry NASAMW gamers at your
desks if you put us in that spot, and we won't be able to calm them down.
It'll probably make for a very unpleasant Thursday / Friday Saturday. Some
of the tournement people are talking about boycotting and running a
competing ancients tournement nearby on the same weekend. Surely this sort
of reaction must make it obvious that this isn't a great idea?

Sincerely,
Alex Aimette

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Chriss]

Certainly I will add my puny voice to this protest. However, as a
veteran of many protests and many large commercial disputes, let me
suggest that NASAMW (or somebody) begin planning NOW how to
disengage from HCon and HMGS altogether and hold our own summer con
independently.

Action matters, particularly if it affects the bottom line. Talk, in
my experience as a litigator, means nothing. If these people cared
about our opinions enough to heed them, they would not have made
this decision to begin with. They cannot be mindless of the nature
of our FEELINGS on the matter. Thus, repeating them can not be
expected to produce results. What they may have miscalculated is the
severity of our RESPONSE.

The only reason I and many others go to HCon is to play competitive
miniatures. Likewise, the only reason to join HMGS for guys west of
the Alleghenys is to attend HCon. If all we do is lobby and cajole,
they'll figure we have no alternative and will just have to keep
coming and grin and bear whatever they dish out. As Thucydides said,
the strong do what they will; while the weak suffer what they must.
Or, if you prefer Shakespeare, It is not in our stars, dear Brutus,
but in ourselves, that we are underlings.


-Greek

[Ewan McNay]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, hrisikos8 wrote:
> Certainly I will add my puny voice to this protest. However, as a
> veteran of many protests and many large commercial disputes, let me
> suggest that NASAMW (or somebody) begin planning NOW how to
> disengage from HCon and HMGS altogether and hold our own summer con
> independently.

For myself, I agree; *but* I know that a lot of our fellows wish to visit
trade stands, the flea market, and in at least one case play *gasp*
another ruleset (Flames of War).

Alas, there are hence reasons to keep the HCon/HMGS affiliation other than
to get the occasional recruit that way (which is valid alone).

Now, doing this for one year might be worthwhile to indicate the depth of
feeling, if necessary.

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Excellent points Bill,

I would also add that dealers need to be contacted as well since many cater
to our little niche of this hobby. How are those same dealers going to feel
about an HMGS East that turns away their customers. The bottom line is the
almighty dollar to these folks and the dealers are a group we can get on our
side imho.

kelly wilkinson

hrisikos8 <hrisikos@...> wrote:
Certainly I will add my puny voice to this protest. However, as a
veteran of many protests and many large commercial disputes, let me
suggest that NASAMW (or somebody) begin planning NOW how to
disengage from HCon and HMGS altogether and hold our own summer con
independently.

Action matters, particularly if it affects the bottom line. Talk, in
my experience as a litigator, means nothing. If these people cared
about our opinions enough to heed them, they would not have made
this decision to begin with. They cannot be mindless of the nature
of our FEELINGS on the matter. Thus, repeating them can not be
expected to produce results. What they may have miscalculated is the
severity of our RESPONSE.

The only reason I and many others go to HCon is to play competitive
miniatures. Likewise, the only reason to join HMGS for guys west of
the Alleghenys is to attend HCon. If all we do is lobby and cajole,
they'll figure we have no alternative and will just have to keep
coming and grin and bear whatever they dish out. As Thucydides said,
the strong do what they will; while the weak suffer what they must.
Or, if you prefer Shakespeare, It is not in our stars, dear Brutus,
but in ourselves, that we are underlings.


-Greek





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Ok, I am going to let this run a while, despite it being more about the politics
than the game. Let's keep it focused on bettering Warrior.

NASAMW can't run a separate con. It is in survival mode at this point. And
Ewan is right - we have to do this inside HMGS E - there's just too many
resources involved.

Bill Gray and Pete Panzeri are known to be reasonable men. I am sure we can
work with them.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: ewan.mcnay@...
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: Looming Hcon 2006 Disaster - Call to Action


On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, hrisikos8 wrote:
> Certainly I will add my puny voice to this protest. However, as a
> veteran of many protests and many large commercial disputes, let me
> suggest that NASAMW (or somebody) begin planning NOW how to
> disengage from HCon and HMGS altogether and hold our own summer con
> independently.

For myself, I agree; *but* I know that a lot of our fellows wish to visit
trade stands, the flea market, and in at least one case play *gasp*
another ruleset (Flames of War).

Alas, there are hence reasons to keep the HCon/HMGS affiliation other than
to get the occasional recruit that way (which is valid alone).

Now, doing this for one year might be worthwhile to indicate the depth of
feeling, if necessary.




Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

Please do write them, and if they respond, write back. Other possibilities
are showing up to HMGS-E member meetings en masse and raising hell, and
getting all the affected tournament groups (NASAMW, WAB, USP&SF, FoW, etc)
to back a common candidate for the next election who is friendly to
tournaments. Of course we could all just stage a "play-in"; i.e. show up to
play in Lampeter as a form of protest, and not leave until they call the
police :-)

The other trick of course is finding people who are willing to organize a
contra event (e.g. find a suitable date, venue, etc). I know I certainly
don't have the time to try this myself, but if there is a cadre of people
willing to take up the challenge I'd certainly attend. A big issue would be
getting dealers to attend, which is one of my main reasons for going to cons.

Jeff Zorn

At 09:24 PM 8/10/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Certainly I will add my puny voice to this protest. However, as a
>veteran of many protests and many large commercial disputes, let me
>suggest that NASAMW (or somebody) begin planning NOW how to
>disengage from HCon and HMGS altogether and hold our own summer con
>independently.
>
>Action matters, particularly if it affects the bottom line. Talk, in
>my experience as a litigator, means nothing. If these people cared
>about our opinions enough to heed them, they would not have made
>this decision to begin with. They cannot be mindless of the nature
>of our FEELINGS on the matter. Thus, repeating them can not be
>expected to produce results. What they may have miscalculated is the
>severity of our RESPONSE.
>
>The only reason I and many others go to HCon is to play competitive
>miniatures. Likewise, the only reason to join HMGS for guys west of
>the Alleghenys is to attend HCon. If all we do is lobby and cajole,
>they'll figure we have no alternative and will just have to keep
>coming and grin and bear whatever they dish out. As Thucydides said,
>the strong do what they will; while the weak suffer what they must.
>Or, if you prefer Shakespeare, It is not in our stars, dear Brutus,
>but in ourselves, that we are underlings.
>
>
>-Greek
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

My original email was also sent to all the dealers who support NASAMW
events. I hope they will take up the cause.

Warrior content: Warrior players buy lead from dealers, so keeping the
Warrior players happy is something dealers should want :-)

At 02:32 PM 8/10/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>Excellent points Bill,
>
> I would also add that dealers need to be contacted as well since
> many cater to our little niche of this hobby. How are those same dealers
> going to feel about an HMGS East that turns away their customers. The
> bottom line is the almighty dollar to these folks and the dealers are a
> group we can get on our side imho.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

Is the "showroom" the room with the stage and the theatre seating
that slopes down?

[Jeff Zorn]

Yes, that's the one.

At 09:55 PM 8/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Is the "showroom" the room with the stage and the theatre seating
>that slopes down?
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]