Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/29/2004 16:06:03 Central Standard Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:
Supposedly, and I can see why, most competitive players avoid HI like
the plague when MI is available due to cost.>>

Like the plague is a might strong, but it is a point taken
But what about for a
loose order unit who's job is to shoot and who either can not have or
else can not use shields in doing it?>>

It used to be that I would have answered with taking LHI over LMI in this
case. However - LB vs LHI is a 2, shieldless 4. LB vs LMI is a 2, shieldless
5.
Both numbers are bad enough that something else needs to be done to avoid
the waver, so of late I have reverted to skipping the armor and saving the
points and using tactics/other units to avoid getting shot for 2 CPF with my
loose
archers. This is primarily due to the presence of LB and S shooters...

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/29/2004 17:24:00 Central Standard Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:
So, barring tactical bits and combinations (which is to say admitedly
in a non-real situation), it looks like the LHI are basically not
vulnerable to waver tests (except bombards and fire syphoneers) while
the LMI are against foot B and Reg CB.
Not true. If you are in skirmish, you don't waver for 2 CPF, you recall. My
comments were about when you are not in skrimish.

In skirmish they are still the same - LB shooting is 12 @ 2 for the LHI (no
recall) and 12 @ 3 for the LMI (no recall).

If the enemy has B vice LB and the loose are in skirmish, it is 16 @ 1 for no
recall vs the LHI and 16 @ 2 which is a recall for the LMI, So the LMI is
indeed worse off against B when in skirmish and faced by B at 80p or less. For
me, this is becoming so small a difference that I am tending to skip the armor.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

This is a general question, important to me at the moment, that cuts
across lists, some of which have been discussed here lately.

Given the extra shooting factors for (a) being LMI target vs LHI and
(b) being shieldless LMI target vs shieless LHI versus (c) the huge
cost difference alluded to earlier (and certainly true) of LHI versus
LMI, how do you take these guys if your missile foot can't have (or
can't use while shooting) shields?

Note I am picking on loose order here because obviously non-
skirmishing close can often hide behind shilded ranks and fire over
head.

Supposedly, and I can see why, most competitive players avoid HI like
the plague when MI is available due to cost. But what about for a
loose order unit who's job is to shoot and who either can not have or
else can not use shields in doing it?

_Only_ secondarily, is this also an issue if the troops get caught in
HtH? Or are they typically toast anyway at that point?

[John Murphy]

Skirmish cuts these down to LB vs shieldless LHI = 2, LMI = 3, and
for all the JLS, D, B it is 1 vs 3 or CB it is 1 vs 2. For a 2E deep
1E frontage you need 16 to force Regs to waver. requires 12@1, 8@2 or
7@3.

So one can make the following little chart to help visualize

enemy figs required to force 2E Regs in 2 rank skirmish to waver
w/unshielded...
LMI LHI
shot at by JLS,D,B 7 12
shot at by S,SS,LB 7 8
shot at by CB 8 12
shot at by HG,Art,fire 8 8

and extrapolate for larger units.

JLS,D,S,SS,LB would put 6 Reg loose foot against this straight-up
CB would put 8 Reg loose foot against this straight-up
B would put 10 Reg loose foot against this straight-up

So, barring tactical bits and combinations (which is to say admitedly
in a non-real situation), it looks like the LHI are basically not
vulnerable to waver tests (except bombards and fire syphoneers) while
the LMI are against foot B and Reg CB.

Of course, I guess what you are getting at is that it never really
works out this way like on paper, just like trying to figure HtH
matchups this way.

Also what suprised me about doing this chart is that Reg LMI, even
shieldless, are not really as terrible as I thought from just looking
at the 2-factor difference, except for a couple specific cases. And
when you look at the difference between a Reg B shieldless LHI figure
@ 6 versus a Reg D shieldless LMI @ 2, hmmmm......

What was it Chris Damour said a while back about never taking
upgrades you don't use?

Am I on the right track here?

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> LB vs LHI is a 2, shieldless 4. LB vs LMI is a 2, shieldless 5.
> Both numbers are bad enough that something else needs to be done
to avoid
> the waver, so of late I have reverted to skipping the armor
> This is primarily due to the presence of LB and S shooters...

[John Murphy]

Got it. This is real good advice, thanks a lot Jon.

And a good snippet earlier too about not giving support troops an
attack weapon.

All very helpful when you lay it all out and see the difference.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> For
> me, this is becoming so small a difference that I am tending to
skip the armor.