Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I know that the rules say that different line items in a list cannot be
mixed without permission from the specific lists. OK, but how explicit does
this have to be?
My specific question is about Sea Peoples. There are line items for
"Warriors" IrrB LHI, and "Followers", IrrC LMI. One can interpret this to
mean that the "followers" can be a rear rank of "warriors", just from the
way they are named, but no permission is given in the text. Are mixed units
like this allowed, O Mighty List Ho?
I know that NKE axemen, archers and close fighters cannot be mixed, but the
Sea Persons example seems a little on the gray side.

John Carroll

[scott holder]

I know that the rules say that different line items in a list cannot be
mixed without permission from the specific lists. OK, but how explicit
does
this have to be?

>Please read it literally. In this case, since the General concepts
says "unless specified in a list......stuff can't mix", then take that
for what it means.

My specific question is about Sea Peoples. There are line items for
"Warriors" IrrB LHI, and "Followers", IrrC LMI. One can interpret this
to
mean that the "followers" can be a rear rank of "warriors", just from
the
way they are named, but no permission is given in the text. Are mixed
units
like this allowed, O Mighty List Ho?
I know that NKE axemen, archers and close fighters cannot be mixed, but
the
Sea Persons example seems a little on the gray side.

>I don't have BW in front of me so can't examine the nuances (or lack
thereof) of my writing. But, unless the Notes section of a list
specifically says "such and such may fight in mixed units", they can't.

>I'll try to remember to look this up tonight while I pack for Cold Wars
but again, there isn't any "between the lines reading" in these lists,
unlike what cropped up in older lists. If I haven't been clear in a
list, let's examine the wording and I can always update it on the web
site.

Scott
List Ho

Good enough; the answer is "NO! Dam' yer eyes!"
You mean interpretations are not needed? What an original concept....

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Holder, Scott <FHWA> [mailto:Scott.Holder@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:09 PM
> To: IPM Return requested (Receipt notification requested)
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Mixed units
>
>
> I know that the rules say that different line items in a list cannot be
> mixed without permission from the specific lists. OK, but how explicit
> does
> this have to be?
>
> >Please read it literally. In this case, since the General concepts
> says "unless specified in a list......stuff can't mix", then take that
> for what it means.
>
> My specific question is about Sea Peoples. There are line items for
> "Warriors" IrrB LHI, and "Followers", IrrC LMI. One can interpret this
> to
> mean that the "followers" can be a rear rank of "warriors", just from
> the
> way they are named, but no permission is given in the text. Are mixed
> units
> like this allowed, O Mighty List Ho?
> I know that NKE axemen, archers and close fighters cannot be mixed, but
> the
> Sea Persons example seems a little on the gray side.
>
> >I don't have BW in front of me so can't examine the nuances (or lack
> thereof) of my writing. But, unless the Notes section of a list
> specifically says "such and such may fight in mixed units", they can't.
>
> >I'll try to remember to look this up tonight while I pack for Cold Wars
> but again, there isn't any "between the lines reading" in these lists,
> unlike what cropped up in older lists. If I haven't been clear in a
> list, let's examine the wording and I can always update it on the web
> site.
>
> Scott
> List Ho
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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>
>
>

The old WRG Late Roman and Patrician Roman list had legionari
skirmishers. Are you allowed to mix skirmisher slingers with
skirmisher archers?


John

[joncleaves]

<<The old WRG Late Roman and Patrician Roman list had legionari
skirmishers.  Are you allowed to mix skirmisher slingers with
skirmisher archers? >>

Yes.  Doing it this weekend at Cold Wars, in fact....

[scott holder]

Because this is an old list and it falls under the "same name" category.
Legionari skirmishers can fight in mixed units.

>>> JonCleaves@... 4/17/02 8:04:00 AM >>>
<<The old WRG Late Roman and Patrician Roman list had legionari
skirmishers. Are you allowed to mix skirmisher slingers with
skirmisher archers? >>

Yes. Doing it this weekend at Cold Wars, in fact....



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I'm looking at a couple of lists that contain mixed capasity units.
I don't have much experience working with LTS front rank Bw rear rank
types of units. Can someone tell me why I'd bother? My limited
experience has been that the support shot never even generates a CPF
or even close to what a second rank of LTS would, so help me to
understand the errors of my ways?
Wanax

[Todd Schneider]

You can use them to draw away fire from another unit,
because they have Shooters in them they would be
higher on the priority list. I haven't found a really
good use for mixed LTS, B type units, but then I've
only been playing a couple of years :-)

Todd

--- spocksleftball <spocksleftball@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
I'm looking at a couple of lists that contain mixed
capasity units.
I don't have much experience working with LTS front
rank Bw rear rank
types of units. Can someone tell me why I'd bother?
My limited
experience has been that the support shot never even
generates a CPF
or even close to what a second rank of LTS would, so
help me to
understand the errors of my ways?
Wanax


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[scott holder]

I'm looking at a couple of lists that contain mixed capasity units.
I don't have much experience working with LTS front rank Bw rear rank
types of units. Can someone tell me why I'd bother? My limited
experience has been that the support shot never even generates a CPF
or even close to what a second rank of LTS would, so help me to
understand the errors of my ways? :)

>I'm sure there are loads of cost-benefit analysis from folks like Frank that
dicate why one should or should not buy these and my comments don't take that
into account.

>Ideally, you aim for 2 ranks of "fighting foot" and a third rank of bow (please
note I don't use the "Bw" phraseology from the somewhat abstract game>grin<).
That won't generate an upfront CPF either but it does add a little something
into the final CPF calculation.

>Moreover, having a unit that shoots is what you're using to suck off your
opponent's shooting. I think that the current player curve in Warrior
completely underestimates this "counter ploy" to army lists like Derek's Silla
Koreans. In one way, this is where armies like the Anglo-Danish actually work
well. Two ranks of Fryd Spearmen backed up by a 3rd rank of Fyrd Bowmen. Sure,
they're vulnerable to certain opponents but they're also great black holes for
shooting priorities AND don't take hardly any shooting damage. Plus they bash
the crap out of those Reg 12E blocks of MI bowmen once they close. The issue is
probably how you fight against all the other stuff but if looking at this in a
vacuum, shooting priority hose ups is what you're aiming at with last back rank
of bow.

>Again, I'm sure there's some cost-benefit formula that probably dictates
AGAINST doing something along these lines. And you really need to juggle units
in terms of who is supporting whom and what are your follow up shock units, etc.
Very fun to try and master.

scott

I have a Russ army in 15mm and I'm painting its duplicate in 25mm
now. I dare any HC to come within 240p of my 4E MI,LTS,JLS,Sh 2E MI,B
units. I'll get 4 at a 4 from the bow even at long range and force
you to check or charge on even dice. Not bad for a unit that only
costs 105 points. A 79 point HC unit will need a friend to disrupt
shooting priorities. The cheap extra figures also have save it from
routing on contact on numerous occasions, 12 enemies figures have to
be at a 5 (or a 7 prior to the -2 for LTS) to get 60 casualties. Not
bad for 16 extra points.

Wes


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Holder, Scott"
<Scott.Holder@f...> wrote:
> I'm looking at a couple of lists that contain mixed capasity
units.
> I don't have much experience working with LTS front rank Bw rear
rank
> types of units. Can someone tell me why I'd bother? My limited
> experience has been that the support shot never even generates a
CPF
> or even close to what a second rank of LTS would, so help me to
> understand the errors of my ways?
>
> >I'm sure there are loads of cost-benefit analysis from folks like
Frank that dicate why one should or should not buy these and my
comments don't take that into account.
>
> >Ideally, you aim for 2 ranks of "fighting foot" and a third rank
of bow (please note I don't use the "Bw" phraseology from the
somewhat abstract game>grin<). That won't generate an upfront CPF
either but it does add a little something into the final CPF
calculation.
>
> >Moreover, having a unit that shoots is what you're using to suck
off your opponent's shooting. I think that the current player curve
in Warrior completely underestimates this "counter ploy" to army
lists like Derek's Silla Koreans. In one way, this is where armies
like the Anglo-Danish actually work well. Two ranks of Fryd Spearmen
backed up by a 3rd rank of Fyrd Bowmen. Sure, they're vulnerable to
certain opponents but they're also great black holes for shooting
priorities AND don't take hardly any shooting damage. Plus they bash
the crap out of those Reg 12E blocks of MI bowmen once they close.
The issue is probably how you fight against all the other stuff but
if looking at this in a vacuum, shooting priority hose ups is what
you're aiming at with last back rank of bow.
>
> >Again, I'm sure there's some cost-benefit formula that probably
dictates AGAINST doing something along these lines. And you really
need to juggle units in terms of who is supporting whom and what are
your follow up shock units, etc. Very fun to try and master.
>
> scott

Thanks everyone. Hopefully it sank in. I'm trying to find a way to
run the Crusader States, and the mixed units seem handy yet brittle.
I'll run some numbers based upon what everyone said.

One point is that if they are used to distract shooters to front in
order to soak off shots from HK for example, then the only worry is
the enemy shooters aren't also something like Viking bondi :)

Then again the HK would worry the bondi I suppose.
Wanax