Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

Actually, even against 4-deeep Reg D pikes which were used as one
example (offline).

4E Reg D MI P, Sh @ 58 pts
2E Reg A EHI 2HCW, Sh, horses @ 106 pts

FIRST BOUND

First of all, the Reg D pikes have to take a waver test when prompted to
charge the Varangians. The pikes have at least a 50% chance of shaking
and refusing to charge at the outset (67% if they have even one cause of
unease).

But for sake of argument let's assume they pass (or are charging at
first opportunity due to orders and hence are not prompted).

Neither Reg foot can charge impetuously so no charges are cancelled.

2 ranks at full plus 2 ranks at half is 12 pikes versus shielded (2HCW
charging or being charged) EHI
12 @ 0 +1 (charging) = 12 @ +1 = 18 casualties

1 rank at full plus 1 rank at half is 6 choppers versus shielded MI
6 @ +5 +1 (charging) -2 (vs steady P) = 6 @ +4 = 18 casualties

so it is a lock at "even dice", nobody is disordered or recoiled
The Varangians have 1 fatigue for EHI charging, 2 fatigue for HtH CPF, 3
total fatigue while the pikes have only 1 fatigue for HtH CPF.

If the Varangians have better, or in many cases equal (i.e. both roll
negative and the Reg A goes up 1), dice the pikes are going to be
disordered, it is even possible on a Varangian +3 to a pike even or less
to break the pikes in a single bound. There are admittedly some cases
where the pikes can roll better (more than 1 better or 1 better when
both roll non-negative) where the Varangians are going to be recoiled
(disordered if the pikes do this rolling up) or (on a +3 to 0/-1/-2/-3
or a +2 to -2/-3 or a +1 to -3) even broken. But I think, without
working it out, if either side is disordered this bound they lose. Given
all this presumed the pikes didn't blow a waver test to start with I
like the chances so far.

SECOND BOUND ASSUMING "EVEN DICE" SO FAR

2 ranks at full only is 8 pikes versus unshielded (2HCW) EHI
8 @ 0 +1 (shieldless) = 8 @ +1 = 12 casualties

1 rank at full only is 4 choppers versus shielded MI
4 @ +5 -2 (vs steady P) = 4 @ +3 = 10 casualties

So the Varangians recoil (still steady) at "even dice"
The Varangians add 1 fatigue for HtH CPF, 4 total fatigue while the
pikes have only the 1 fatigue from the previous bound.

Let's look again at the random variables. If the Varangians, still, have
better, or in many cases equal (i.e. both roll negative and the Reg A
goes up 1), dice the pikes are going to be disordered (the only
difference is now a combined Varangian +1 of which the pikes portion is
even or better is now a lock). There are admittedly still some cases
where the pikes can roll better (3 better or 2 better when both roll
non-negative) where the Varangians are going to be disordered or (on a
+3 to 0/-1/-2/-3) even broken. But I think, without working it out, if
either side is disordered this bound they lose.

While one can see that if the "even dice" continues the Varangians will
tire first (though the game will likely end before they break) it has
been shown that "even dice" is not all that likely, or dominating, an
outcome and I expect the random variations make this more in the
Varangians favor.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<snip>

Excellent P vs HCW description. Now, take the most common troop type in
Warrior, IrrC LMI JLS,Sh skirmish them up to the EHI block, perhaps force a halt
or test, then prompt them to charge (cancelling a Varangian charge) and roll
even dice for two turns. clearly, the varangians are in trouble.

In 7th, I've run my share of Irr HCW Fyrd in Anglo-Normans in small to largest
units. They have never failed to fail me. Always tired before contact, always
fail to maintain sh, always become disordered in second bound, always rout in
third. It is simply a weapons system to be avoided in Warrior. Much like Reg
LMI LTS armed foot, the HCW will not perform historically. sorry, but there it
is.

Wanax




Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

Sorry, absolutely no way Wanax. Sit down and simply run the numbers.

Better yet check out my earlier post where I described JUST EXACTLY
this troop type matchup.
Guarantee you the Varangians absolutely kick their butts.

Worth the points? I don't know - my guess is probably not under a
lot of circumstances. But they definitely eat Slav spearmen for
breakfast, burp, without breaking a sweat even.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
> Now, take the most common troop type in Warrior, IrrC LMI JLS,Sh
skirmish them up to the EHI block, perhaps force a halt or test,
then prompt them to charge (cancelling a Varangian charge) and roll
even dice for two turns. clearly, the varangians are in trouble.
> Wanax

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/5/2003 19:03:00 Central Daylight Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:

> Now, take the most common troop type in Warrior, IrrC LMI JLS,Sh
> skirmish them up to the EHI block, perhaps force a halt or test,


Is that the most common troop type? I guess it is certainly a
contender...never thought about it. In any case, just so I know, what halt or
test is being
forced on the Varangians by JLS troops?


> then prompt them to charge (cancelling a Varangian charge)

Only cancelled if the LMI are impetuous and since they are C it is very easy
to prevent that.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

K just reread it. I was reading HI factors, my bad. EHI still can be rendered
ineffective through forcing charges, but with a -2 factor they will stay alive
:)

My issue is with the HCW. EHI can and will do well, but HCW is just not
effective in most instances.
Wanax

"J. Murphy" <jjmurphy@...> wrote:
Sorry, absolutely no way Wanax. Sit down and simply run the numbers.

Better yet check out my earlier post where I described JUST EXACTLY
this troop type matchup.
Guarantee you the Varangians absolutely kick their butts.

Worth the points? I don't know - my guess is probably not under a
lot of circumstances. But they definitely eat Slav spearmen for
breakfast, burp, without breaking a sweat even.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
> Now, take the most common troop type in Warrior, IrrC LMI JLS,Sh
skirmish them up to the EHI block, perhaps force a halt or test,
then prompt them to charge (cancelling a Varangian charge) and roll
even dice for two turns. clearly, the varangians are in trouble.
> Wanax



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Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]