Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Dear listers,

I have been lurking to this list for quite some time now, mainly because I
find the approach of the rules interesting. I have only blayed the DBx
family of games, as far as ancients are concerned, but I think that I will
find Warrior more interesting. I have downloaded the playetest rules and
read them. Today I decided to play a solo battle and see how the game works
in practice. As you migh imagine I came up with a number of questions about
the rules. Maybe most of them will seem trivial to you, I apologise if such
is the case.

The first will be rather "philosophical". I have noticed that elements in 15
and 6 mm scale have 40mm frontage. However, the recommended table size for
6mm is half that for 15mm. This seems to imply that one cannot fight same
size battles using these two scales!

Second question: How many tactical moves can a unit make? My guess is that
it makes only one, but I was unable to find this in the rules. Can a unit
make both an Approach and a Charge move? An Approach and a Counter?

Third question: suppose pike armed infantry receives 3cpf and more than it
inflicted. Then, it must become disordered, both because it is pike armed
infantry and because it received 3cpf. How does one handle this? Is it two
disorder results which cause a waver test?

Fourth question: Charging bodies are allowed to freely wheel to conform to
their enemy's front. In some cases this can result in the body making a much
much longer move than allowed (imagine the element on the outer side of the
wheeling body). This feels awkward.

Fifth question: Do units fight enemies who have contacted them on the
flanks? I think I recall some mention to this, but I can't locate it in the
manual!

Thank you all in advance.

Marios

Hi again,

Thanks Javon for your answers. I'll grab the opportunity to ask some more
:-)

>> The first will be rather "philosophical". I have noticed that elements
>> in 15 and 6 mm scale have 40mm frontage. However, the recommended
>> table size for 6mm is half that for 15mm. This seems to imply that one
>> cannot fight same size battles using these two scales!
>
>First, remember that 6s are based with 2x as many figures per
>base, so that is one consideration. In addition, remember that the
>recommended table sizes are just that.

They do indeed have twice the figures, but the rules say that they should be
counted as half the number.

>> Second question: How many tactical moves can a unit make? My guess is
>> that it makes only one, but I was unable to find this in the rules.
>> Can a unit make both an Approach and a Charge move? An Approach and a
>> Counter?
>
>You may make an approach and a Charge move, as they take
>place in different turn segments (phases? please excuse mistakes
>in terminology, but my rules are in the car). You may not make an
>approach and a counter, an apporach and a retirement or an
>approach and a March move in the same bound.

I noticed, however, that although in 6.15 Retirements, it is explicitly
stated that a unit which tried (even unsuccesfully) to perform a counter is
not allowed a retirement, no similar restriction is mentrioned in 6.13
Approaches or 6.14 Counters. It's a bit confusing.

>> Fourth question: Charging bodies are allowed to freely wheel to
>> conform to their enemy's front. In some cases this can result in the
>> body making a much much longer move than allowed (imagine the element
>> on the outer side of the wheeling body). This feels awkward.
>
>Right. It does feel awkward. Any elements which would move
>more than their normal move do not make it to the enemy body
>until the end of the combat segment, so they do not fight in the first
>round of combat, but do fight in subsequent rounds.

This sounds good, but I guess it is your own judgement and not sth in the
rulebook

>> Fifth question: Do units fight enemies who have contacted them on the
>> flanks? I think I recall some mention to this, but I can't locate it
>> in the manual!
>
>Not during the first turn of combat. They may, however, fight those
>enemy on subsequent turns, if they make a counter so the unit
>may turn to face.

If they turn to face, how do they turn? Do they pivot around the contacted
elements, or do they conform to their flanking enemy's front "a la DBA"?

When counting the figures of the flankers that are actually fighting, I
assume that one counts only the figures in contact with the enemy's flank.
Correct?

Suppose a unit destroys all its hand-to-hand enemies. It must rally before
being able to move again. Does it rally in the end of the same turn, or in
the
next turn? In 5.42, Rally Requirements, it doesn't say that for a unit to
rally it must not have fought in this turn!

Thanks in advance!
Marios

>> If they turn to face, how do they turn? Do they pivot around the
>> contacted elements, or do they conform to their flanking enemy's front
>> "a la DBA"?
>
>They turn to face, just like they would under the rules for turning
>(don't remember section). A long column if 1-4 elements deep, 2-3
>abreast if deeper.

Oh, you don't mean wheel, but you mean turn each element in its place and
create a column! I see, this makes sense.

Thanks again Jevon!

[Jevon Garrett]

Hi, Marios, I am suprised no one else has gotten back to you. I
will try to answer your questions (guys correct me if I am wrong).

>
> The first will be rather "philosophical". I have noticed that elements
> in 15 and 6 mm scale have 40mm frontage. However, the recommended
> table size for 6mm is half that for 15mm. This seems to imply that one
> cannot fight same size battles using these two scales!

First, remember that 6s are based with 2x as many figures per
base, so that is one consideration. In addition, remember that the
recommended table sizes are just that.

>
> Second question: How many tactical moves can a unit make? My guess is
> that it makes only one, but I was unable to find this in the rules.
> Can a unit make both an Approach and a Charge move? An Approach and a
> Counter?

You may make an approach and a Charge move, as they take
place in different turn segments (phases? please excuse mistakes
in terminology, but my rules are in the car). You may not make an
approach and a counter, an apporach and a retirement or an
approach and a March move in the same bound.

>
> Third question: suppose pike armed infantry receives 3cpf and more
> than it inflicted. Then, it must become disordered, both because it is
> pike armed infantry and because it received 3cpf. How does one handle
> this? Is it two disorder results which cause a waver test?

I believe it is two disorder results with no waver test since both
disorder results occurred in the same phase, ie. it is not a
"second cause of disorder caused by combat).

>
> Fourth question: Charging bodies are allowed to freely wheel to
> conform to their enemy's front. In some cases this can result in the
> body making a much much longer move than allowed (imagine the element
> on the outer side of the wheeling body). This feels awkward.

Right. It does feel awkward. Any elements which would move
more than their normal move do not make it to the enemy body
until the end of the combat segment, so they do not fight in the first
round of combat, but do fight in subsequent rounds.

>
> Fifth question: Do units fight enemies who have contacted them on the
> flanks? I think I recall some mention to this, but I can't locate it
> in the manual!

Not during the first turn of combat. They may, however, fight those
enemy on subsequent turns, if they make a counter so the unit
may turn to face.

Jevon

[Jevon Garrett]

> Hi again,
>
> Thanks Javon for your answers. I'll grab the opportunity to ask some
> more
>
> >> The first will be rather "philosophical". I have noticed that
> >> elements in 15 and 6 mm scale have 40mm frontage. However, the
> >> recommended table size for 6mm is half that for 15mm. This seems to
> >> imply that one cannot fight same size battles using these two
> >> scales!
> >
> >First, remember that 6s are based with 2x as many figures per
> >base, so that is one consideration. In addition, remember that the
> >recommended table sizes are just that.
>
> They do indeed have twice the figures, but the rules say that they
> should be counted as half the number.

True . . . like I said, I didn't have my book with me . . . ; )

>
> >> Second question: How many tactical moves can a unit make? My guess
> >> is that it makes only one, but I was unable to find this in the
> >> rules. Can a unit make both an Approach and a Charge move? An
> >> Approach and a Counter?
> >
> >You may make an approach and a Charge move, as they take
> >place in different turn segments (phases? please excuse mistakes in
> >terminology, but my rules are in the car). You may not make an
> >approach and a counter, an apporach and a retirement or an approach
> >and a March move in the same bound.
>
> I noticed, however, that although in 6.15 Retirements, it is
> explicitly stated that a unit which tried (even unsuccesfully) to
> perform a counter is not allowed a retirement, no similar restriction
> is mentrioned in 6.13 Approaches or 6.14 Counters. It's a bit
> confusing.

I'll look at the rules tonight and try to remember to clarify tomorrow.

>
> >> Fourth question: Charging bodies are allowed to freely wheel to
> >> conform to their enemy's front. In some cases this can result in
> >> the body making a much much longer move than allowed (imagine the
> >> element on the outer side of the wheeling body). This feels
> >> awkward.
> >
> >Right. It does feel awkward. Any elements which would move
> >more than their normal move do not make it to the enemy body
> >until the end of the combat segment, so they do not fight in the
> >first round of combat, but do fight in subsequent rounds.
>
> This sounds good, but I guess it is your own judgement and not sth in
> the rulebook

Well, there should probably be an example in the book. My
answer is from my experience on how it is normally done at
tournaments.

>
> >> Fifth question: Do units fight enemies who have contacted them on
> >> the flanks? I think I recall some mention to this, but I can't
> >> locate it in the manual!
> >
> >Not during the first turn of combat. They may, however, fight those
> >enemy on subsequent turns, if they make a counter so the unit may
> >turn to face.
>
> If they turn to face, how do they turn? Do they pivot around the
> contacted elements, or do they conform to their flanking enemy's front
> "a la DBA"?

They turn to face, just like they would under the rules for turning
(don't remember section). A long column if 1-4 elements deep, 2-3
abreast if deeper.

>
> When counting the figures of the flankers that are actually fighting,
> I assume that one counts only the figures in contact with the enemy's
> flank. Correct?
>
> Suppose a unit destroys all its hand-to-hand enemies. It must rally
> before being able to move again. Does it rally in the end of the same
> turn, or in the next turn? In 5.42, Rally Requirements, it doesn't say
> that for a unit to rally it must not have fought in this turn!

It depends on whether or not the unit is disorderd after the combat.
(I think).

Jevon

>
> Thanks in advance!
> Marios
>
>
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[joncleaves]

Marios

While Jevon did a great job answering your questions, I'd like to close a couple
of loops.

6mm and 15mm are used to represent drastically different scales of battle. 6's
have twice the figures of 15mm to show that they represent an organization twice
the size of one in 15mm, but count half the figs to make the elements play the
same way mechanically.

I am adding language to the rules to explicitly state what combinations of
tactical moves are allowed. Jevon's answer was correct, the rules just need
cleaning up.

<<When counting the figures of the flankers that are actually fighting, I
assume that one counts only the figures in contact with the enemy's flank.
Correct?>>

Correct. Plus ranks behind if applicable.

<<Suppose a unit destroys all its hand-to-hand enemies. It must rally before
being able to move again. Does it rally in the end of the same turn, or in
the next turn?>>

Next turn.

<<In 5.42, Rally Requirements, it doesn't say that for a unit torally it must
not have fought in this turn!>>

Yes, the draft I uploaded to the egroup on 11 July does say just that. Perhaps
you have an earlier one?

Welcome to Warrior.
Jon