Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

Well, I actually figured it out.

I can indeed use almost every figure I have for this army at under
1600 points. The only stuff left in the box would be the 3 loose
individual standard bearer figures removed from the generals' bases,
the two elements of bolt shooters over the list maximum, two elements
of LI B not converted into Aux rear rankers and two baggage tents.
Absolutely incredibly huge by the standards I am used to.

All the thrill of running D class troops!

Here is the resulting army list.

15mm Patrician Romans
1x CinC 1E Reg A HC JLS,Sh @124 =124
4x Equites 2E Reg C HC L,B,Sh @82 =328
5x Auxilia Infantry/Bowmen 3E Reg D LMI 1JLS,D,Sh/1JLS,Sh/1B,Sh @50
=250
1x Light Bolt Shooter 2E Reg D Art 2 crew @46 =46
2x Germanic Foederati Noble Cavalry 4E Irr B HC L,Sh @133 =266
2x Germanic Foederati Follower Cavalry 4E Irr C MC L,Sh @97 =194
4x Germanic Foederati Warriors 6E Irr C MI HTW,Sh @97 =388
1x Camp 4E Irr D Tr @0 =0
=1,596 total

Now, any advice, please, regarding what I might watch out for in
competition with these?

Hey! Since I'm on the group at the moment I'll take a shot at it.

Disclaimer: I'm certainly no expert. I'm a mediocre player at best
and have never won a tournement (though I'm usually in the top half
and have placed a couple of time) . Therefore take my opinion with
a grain of salt.


.>
> All the thrill of running D class troops!

I'm not at all afraid of running "D"s in largish units. Afterall I
played Medieval French for a while and am building early Crusaders
as we speak. Just avoid prompting charges with them and otherwise
protect them from wavers and they do fine.

>
> Here is the resulting army list.
>
> 15mm Patrician Romans
> 1x CinC 1E Reg A HC JLS,Sh @124 =124

This is simply a difference in army design outlook. I have had bad
experiences with running only one general. Given the large number
of irregular units in this mob you might run into problems with
promts and the like. On the other hand your army will take a longer
time to reach the break point and go into "retreat" being one
command.

> 4x Equites 2E Reg C HC L,B,Sh @82 =328

Good. I would run the regular cav in small units to exploit their
greater mobility. These guys will work great in "pin and punch"
manuvers when used in conjunction with the large units of irregular
cav.

> 5x Auxilia Infantry/Bowmen 3E Reg D LMI 1JLS,D,Sh/1JLS,Sh/1B,Sh
@50
> =250

While you have lots of mobility an decent woods clearing ability
with these guys I dislike such small infantry units. You cold work
in conjunction with the larger irregular foot units but these are
extremely fragile and one turn of good shooting or fighting will
make these guys combat ineffective.

Also is there any reason you did not buy darts for the second rank?
Once again we probably simply have different theories of army design
here but I would make these 16-24 figure units.


> 1x Light Bolt Shooter 2E Reg D Art 2 crew @46 =46

I don't care for artillery but have seen it work well in the past.
Also at least you are not tying up alot of points here.

> 2x Germanic Foederati Noble Cavalry 4E Irr B HC L,Sh @133 =266

Great stuff. this represents some real killing power. I don't have
the IW list book yet, but am glad to see the option to run the
irregular cav with lances. This greatly increases these guy's
effectiveness. Like I pointed out above working with the small
units of regulars these will be deadly.

> 2x Germanic Foederati Follower Cavalry 4E Irr C MC L,Sh @97 =194

Are these guys required in the list? I don't care for MC as they
are real missle magnets and suffer in close combat. But the option
to give them lances does mean they too will inflict decent
casualties.

> 4x Germanic Foederati Warriors 6E Irr C MI HTW,Sh @97 =388

Good stuff. I'm a strong believer in such units as a "mobile
terrain feature" in the center of the army to channel enemy movement
were the battle is usually won: on the flanks. However arming these
guys with HTW makes them hard hitting if they have to get into
combat. Certainly they will be able to beat other close order
foot "mobile terrain feature" units that are typically armed with
LTS or JLS.


You have 19 units and 26 scouting points. I try to have at least
one unit per 100 points played and more if possible. So you are
doing very well there.

>
> Now, any advice, please, regarding what I might watch out for in
> competition with these?

Well my main comments are seen above. The other issue you might
think about is that you have no LC or LI. This is kind of suprising
given how common such skirmisher units are in open competition.

Overall I like the list even if I disagree with a few points. I've
been wanting to build a later Roman army of some sort myself and
seeing this makes me wish my copy of IW was here NOW!

Thoughts and counters?

Martin

[John Murphy]

Hi Martin,

> I'm a mediocre player at best
> and have never won a tournement (though I'm usually in the top half
> and have placed a couple of time)

That would already make you a better player than me, so thank you.

> > 1x CinC 1E Reg A HC JLS,Sh @124 =124
> This is simply a difference in army design outlook. I have had
bad
> experiences with running only one general. Given the large number
> of irregular units in this mob you might run into problems with
> promts and the like. On the other hand your army will take a
longer
> time to reach the break point and go into "retreat" being one
> command.

Well, at 1600 points and wanting to cram every possible figure into
the list I just couldn't justify the points for more generals. I
usually have two or three of them but a couple things made me hope
this would work. First I do not really have a use for htem leading
equites units due to armor/weapon categories. Second, a bunch of my
units are simply not going to be prompted to charge being D class. SO
really I just need to keep this one 1E general where he can prompt
the irregulars and let the regulars skirmish on the flanks.

> > 4x Equites 2E Reg C HC L,B,Sh @82 =328
> Good. I would run the regular cav in small units to exploit their
> greater mobility. These guys will work great in "pin and punch"
> manuvers when used in conjunction with the large units of irregular
> cav.

Yeah. Proto-Byzantines. I just had to take these even if I didn't
have the exact figures in the army, which I do. You made a comment
about LC below, well, this is my LC - in fact that is what it is
being rebased from in the "abstract rules". This is a much better
representation of it too.

> > 5x Auxilia Infantry/Bowmen 3E Reg D LMI 1JLS,D,Sh/1JLS,Sh/1B,Sh
> @50
> > =250
> I'm not at all afraid of running "D"s in largish units. Afterall I
> played Medieval French for a while and am building early Crusaders
> as we speak. Just avoid prompting charges with them and otherwise
> protect them from wavers and they do fine.
> While you have lots of mobility an decent woods clearing ability
> with these guys I dislike such small infantry units. You cold work
> in conjunction with the larger irregular foot units but these are
> extremely fragile and one turn of good shooting or fighting will
> make these guys combat ineffective.
> Also is there any reason you did not buy darts for the second rank?
> Once again we probably simply have different theories of army
design
> here but I would make these 16-24 figure units.

Actually, the reason is not what you probably think but is perfectly
reasonable. These are painted per the Notitia Dignitatum as 12-figure
units. That tells you a lot about my army design philosophy for this
one.

But since these are small units I am hoping they can exploit gaps in
the close order foot without exposing their vulnerability.

Taking two ranks of darts would mean some other figures sit in the
box. Plus having some loose order figures without a longer-range
missile weapon can be an advantage with JLS - really the darts only
give these guys an extra inch range and a different mechanism for
support shooting (still worth it if I didn't have to sit another
troop type to get them).

They will require a great deal of care, but hopefully - if not needed
for holding flank terrain - they can use the cover of the larger
Foederati foot and attack/support-shoot into the flanks of enemy
engaging the bigger units. Or they can provide something cheap to
throw at enemy units that are too quick or far away for the close
foot to charge.

On the other hand, they are real cheap. This would be my LI except
that I wont use them that way because they do cause wavers for
routing.

> > 1x Light Bolt Shooter 2E Reg D Art 2 crew @46 =46
> I don't care for artillery but have seen it work well in the
past.
> Also at least you are not tying up alot of points here.

Yeah, it would probably be sounder to take the darts than take these
guys. But if I play with them maybe I will finally figure out how to
use them.

> > 2x Germanic Foederati Noble Cavalry 4E Irr B HC L,Sh @133 =266
> Great stuff. this represents some real killing power. I don't
have
> the IW list book yet, but am glad to see the option to run the
> irregular cav with lances. This greatly increases these guy's
> effectiveness. Like I pointed out above working with the small
> units of regulars these will be deadly.
> > 2x Germanic Foederati Follower Cavalry 4E Irr C MC L,Sh @97 =194
> Are these guys required in the list? I don't care for MC as they
> are real missle magnets and suffer in close combat. But the option
> to give them lances does mean they too will inflict decent
> casualties.

These are not required in the list, and I have a question in to Scott
about using them as rear-rankers for the nobles which would be my
preference. However, they are another mounted shock option just not
as good as HC which is to say not very good at all. I do hope though
that their size will help and if not too much is expected from them
maybe there will be a target of opportunity. Besides, I had to do
something with all those Goths!

> > 4x Germanic Foederati Warriors 6E Irr C MI HTW,Sh @97 =388
> Good stuff. I'm a strong believer in such units as a "mobile
> terrain feature" in the center of the army to channel enemy
movement
> were the battle is usually won: on the flanks. However arming
these
> guys with HTW makes them hard hitting if they have to get into
> combat. Certainly they will be able to beat other close order
> foot "mobile terrain feature" units that are typically armed with
> LTS or JLS.

These are the pride and joy of this army from its DBM days, although
now that I have the proto-Byzantines it will be a tough choice which
will be the favorite. Hopefully they will do more than just occupy
space. We shall see - I am not certain how good close order foot are
going to be but at least they have plenty of supporting cast and if
they get an impetuous charge off they could do some damage.

> You have 19 units and 26 scouting points. I try to have at least
> one unit per 100 points played and more if possible. So you are
> doing very well there.

Yeah this army has 50% more units, and 50%-100% larger units to boot,
than my 1600 point army I used in the last tourney.

> Well my main comments are seen above. The other issue you might
> think about is that you have no LC or LI. This is kind of
suprising
> given how common such skirmisher units are in open competition.

I have gone to both extremes on this issue - running E.Nik.Byz. with
6-7 LC/LI units all force marched, or running my last army with 0
scouting points (not a misprint). Different mechanics but both seem
to be viable ways to play the game.