Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Doug]

>In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:12:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>rwalker@... writes:
>
>> If there are enemy bodies equal distance, 80 paces front and rear let's say,
>> may the rallying unit still face the enemy to the rear?>>
>
>Yes. The precedent in Warrior is that if two things are equidistant
>it is player's choice.
>Jon

It would be good to make that "precedent" part of the rules.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/5/2004 16:55:36 Central Daylight Time,
eforbes100@... writes:
Can they turn to face at the end of approach or does this count as forbidden
movement under a mandatory rally?
That movement is completely free and can be done even if disordered.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed Forbes]

Jon,

Troops, for example LC / LI, that take 3 cpf and disorder in prep shoot, are
charged, evade facing away from the enemy, and are now under mandatory rally
with no voluntary movement allowed.

Can they turn to face at the end of approach or does this count as forbidden
movement under a mandatory rally?

Ed

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[Ed Forbes]

Thanks Jon,

We went over this in detail this weekend and it had all of us scratching our
heads. Perhaps this could be more specific in the rules.

Ed



In a message dated 4/5/2004 16:55:36 Central Daylight Time,
eforbes100@... writes:
Can they turn to face at the end of approach or does this count as forbidden
movement under a mandatory rally?

>That movement is completely free and can be done even if disordered.




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[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 4/5/04 11:37:52 PM GMT Daylight Time, JonCleaves@...
writes:

> In a message dated 4/5/2004 16:55:36 Central Daylight Time,
> eforbes100@... writes:
> Can they turn to face at the end of approach or does this count as forbidden
>
> movement under a mandatory rally?
> That movement is completely free and can be done even if disordered.
>
>
>

Surely not? Not that i want to question jon .. sorry i do hehe. How can
this be.

This turning of mandatory rallying troops before they are rallied does not
appear to be allowed anywhere in the rules.

It will certainly make a big difference to games in future if this is so.

mark mallard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/6/2004 2:16:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markmallard77
writes:

> This turning of mandatory rallying troops before they are
> rallied does not
> appear to be allowed anywhere in the rules.>>

5.42, second sentence after the bullets. This is a free determination of which
way the body will face when it rallies, not an approach move - no rallying body
may make a normal move in the approach phase.

Jon

[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 4/6/04 7:52:28 PM GMT Daylight Time, JonCleaves@...
writes:

> >This turning of mandatory rallying troops before they are
> >rallied does not
> >appear to be allowed anywhere in the rules.>>
>
> 5.42, second sentence after the bullets. This is a free determination of
> which way the body will face when it rallies, not an approach move - no
> rallying body may make a normal move in the approach phase.
>
> Jon

i do not quite follow your argument (2 am here). A disordered unit that must
rally does not do so until Phase 9 the end phase, so how can it turn in phase
3.

i have looked at 5.4 to 5.45

5.44 is quite specific.

This would appear to be a major game dynamic change for us, should we be
wrong.

mark mallard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/6/2004 20:17:30 Central Daylight Time,
markmallard77@... writes:
i do not quite follow your argument (2 am here).>>

I'm not arguing.
A disordered unit that must
rally does not do so until Phase 9 the end phase, so how can it turn in phase
3.>>

No unit that is rallying, disordered or otherwise, can make an approach move.
However, they can turn 180 to face an enemy for free.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

In a message dated 4/7/04 4:01:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, JonCleaves@...
writes:

> i do not quite follow your argument (2 am here).>>
>
> I'm not arguing.
> A disordered unit that must
> rally does not do so until Phase 9 the end phase, so how can it turn in
> phase
> 3.>>
>
> No unit that is rallying, disordered or otherwise, can make an approach
> move.
> However, they can turn 180 to face an enemy for free.
>
> Jon
>

first line and first bullet point of 5.42 (below)

5.42 Rally Requirements .A body rallies during the appropriate phase provided
that, in that bound it does not:

move in any way

i appreciate that on page 20

3.2 the bound
approaches are 3.2 3b
and then 3.2 3c steady bodies complete rally at the end of approaches (5.43).

3.2 9c unsteady bodies complete rally.


..........

We understood as have others that at 3.2 3c all those rallying steady bodies
may turn as per 5.42 - on the understanding that they would have rallied
before they turn.

unsteady troops in our misguided opinion turning would break the Rally
Requirements above. move in any way - these words are also also quoted in
5.44.

mark mallard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Mark

5.42 says:

" A rallying body whose closest enemy is to their rear may turn 180 degrees
in the approach phase. "

This is for free. It has nothing to do with steady or unsteady and is not an
approach move.

You will note that NO body in a mandatory rally can move normally (beyond
this free move) in the approach phase, so this continued discussion of unsteady
troops is irrelevant.

"5.43 Rallying Steady Troops. Steady troops are rallied at the end of the
Approach Phase. Note that this means that normally the only effect of rallying
on steady troops is to miss one Approach Phase. "

This miss one approach phase and the unsteady rally rule that they complete
it in the end phase both mean that rallying troops cannot make approach moves,
whether they are steady 5.43 or unsteady 5.44. 5.42 supercedes them both and
allows a 180 degree turn if the enemy is closer to their rear and that 180
degree move is FOR FREE, is not an approach move, it is a FREE turn, it is
optional and is NOT an approach move. The only thing it has to do with
approaches
is that it is made in the approach phase. It could theoreticlly be done, for
example, outside of 480p of the enemy - but an approach could not.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed Forbes]

Jon,

I think there is enough confusion on the wording in the rules on turning to face
in a rally to add specific language in the rules covering this point.

Ed

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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:33:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
eforbes100@... writes:

> Jon,
>
> I think there is enough confusion on the wording in the rules on turning to
face in a rally to add specific language in
> the rules covering this point.
>
> Ed>.

I have added it to my list of things to look at while making the new rulebook.

Jon

If there are enemy bodies equal distance, 80 paces front and rear let's say,
may the rallying unit still face the enemy to the rear?

Must the enemy to the rear be directly to the rear as in open order support?

Finally, closest enemy on the flank allows no turn of 90 degrees, correct?

R

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:12:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rwalker@...
writes:

> If there are enemy bodies equal distance, 80 paces front and rear let's say,
> may the rallying unit still face the enemy to the rear?>>

Yes. The precedent in Warrior is that if two things are equidistant it is
player's choice.


>
> Must the enemy to the rear be directly to the rear as in open order support?>>

No.

>
> Finally, closest enemy on the flank allows no turn of 90
> degrees, correct?>>

Correct.