Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/24/2004 11:26:42 Central Daylight Time,
jjendon@... writes:
Can a REG C 2E HC L, Sh unit broken and routing, subtract optional distance
when making its rout move if it rolls a 5 or 6 on the distance die (and not
otherwise prevented from doing so due to orders)? >>

Yes.

While the choice to reduce may seem 'tactical', the larger issue is the need
to keep varaible moves unpredictable. If a router always went normal (or
long), the pursuing player would have knowledge he would not have as a general.


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[Chris Bump]

In a message dated 4/24/2004 12:13:48 PM Central Standard Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:
While the choice to reduce may seem 'tactical', the larger issue is the need
to keep varaible moves unpredictable. If a router always went normal (or
long), the pursuing player would have knowledge he would not have as a
general.
But the router can still go short by rolling a 1 or 2. The opposing general
cannot predict what the average die is going to produce in distance, nor can
he predict how his pursuers will roll for distance. We have mandates currently
in the rules about adding and subtracting distances based on our commands'
orders and once the opposing general is aware of those orders he has info that
he would not normally have. Your stated reasoning does not stand the common
sense test. Impetuous chargers must rally forward because they are somehow out
of control, further impetuous pursuers must maintain contact if they can, so
if both impetous pursuer and router roll up the impetous pursuer must take the
add option, yet men fleeing for their lives, who have lost all sense of unit
cohesion and whose sole thought is self preservation have the state of mind to
consider the tactical situation and slow down their dash for safety? There
are several rules about how routers must act, must run directly away from
pursuers, must deviate to head for the table edge on bound after the rout, all
presumably based on the fact that you do not want tactical routs and to simulate
their unabated single minded consideration of escape from their pursuers. Simple
rule that routers may not CHOOSE to deduct distance or must Choose to add
distance would get rid of this very "games like" feature. They do not have the
option to do so if they roll down, but really should not be given any options
at all.
This is a gamesmanship feature, one my side benefited from yesterday btw,
that does not simulate anything that can pointed to historically.
Chris


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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/24/2004 14:10:37 Central Daylight Time, cncbump@...
writes:
This is a gamesmanship feature, one my side benefited from yesterday btw,
that does not simulate anything that can pointed to historically.>>

No, actually. This is a perfect example of where it is possible to go either
way and trying to micromanage the pseudo-choice for mounted routers rolling 5
or 6 isn't worth the rules it would take.

The only way you could condemn this for lack of 'common sense' is to believe
that the 5 or 6 is simulating 'faster running' and not there to provide
unpredictability in certain moves - which is the reason why we have variable
moves
in the first place. If we were trying to simulate that sometimes troops go
faster and sometimes they go slower, then EVERY move (approach, counter, retire,
etc.) would be variable.

But this is not why the game has variable moves. The moves that are variable
are that way to simulate unpredictability in as many moves as possible,
focusing on the most 'chaotic'.

J


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[Don Coon]

Can a REG C 2E HC L, Sh unit broken and routing, subtract optional distance
when making its rout move if it rolls a 5 or 6 on the distance die (and not
otherwise prevented from doing so due to orders)? I ask this question more
to get it out there than from not knowing the answer. The rules support the
option to subtract, but it "feels" wrong. It somehow does not sit right in
my head that a routing body could make any choices at all that would allow
pursuit to remain in contact. This type of "tactical routing" allows the
routers to still behave in a somewhat sane manner if the situation warrents.
Yesterday we had the above unit in rout and roll a 5. Had he gone 160p, the
pursuit would have converted into another body causing the player some
distress. So the player opted to decut the 80p and only rout a total of
80p. Again, allowed by the rules, but slippery feeling.

Similar things happen when a router is getting nearer to a friendly and will
break the 120p waver barrier if a 160p rout is executed. When rolling a 5
or 6, the router will choose to deduct to prevent the 120p barrier from
being broken and saving a waver test. This puts a lot of "smarts" into the
routing unit that also does not feel right.

1. Is the duduction allowed as we feel the rules allow?

2. If yes, any thoughts on why a router should behave in a tactical manner?

3. If no, can you point me to the pertinent passage?

Thanks in advance,

Don

[Don Coon]

> In a message dated 4/24/2004 11:26:42 Central Daylight Time,
> jjendon@... writes:
> Can a REG C 2E HC L, Sh unit broken and routing, subtract optional
distance
> when making its rout move if it rolls a 5 or 6 on the distance die (and
not
> otherwise prevented from doing so due to orders)? >>
>
> Yes.
>
> While the choice to reduce may seem 'tactical', the larger issue is the
need
> to keep varaible moves unpredictable. If a router always went normal (or
> long), the pursuing player would have knowledge he would not have as a
general.

I am entering the discussion phase and leaving the rules interp phase. I am
not in any way trying to sway you or change the rule.

Sure I see this, but the die roll produces variability without the need to
offer the router a seemingly tactical choice. A router can roll a 1 or a 2
and go short, a 3 or a 4 and go normal and a 5 or a 6 and go long (or normal
for foot). Given this unpredictability, the option to deduct while in rout
seems superfluous and a bit gamey.

Don