Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

Gang
I've had a few questions here this week and I have been answering them on the
fly and probably should not do that. i'm going to do my home work and post
complete answers, but you have to give me time. If you asked a question, be
patient, I do have it.
Jon

[joncleaves]

<<Jon,
Will you be responding to questions after the warrior rules come out.>>

Absolutely. Of course I will. And I bet I'll be much more pleasant about it.
:)

I most humbly apologize if I let you believe I would not. It's just that this
is currently kicking my ass.

Jon

[Patrick Byrne]

Jon,
Will you be responding to questions after the warrior rules come out.

The questions I recently had regarding the Gap issue I would have asked
whether or not the rules were final.

So I just wonder what kind of support will be offered once the rules
are published.
-PB

[joncleaves]

Indeed, Pat, may it be so. :)

[Patrick Byrne]

May that which kicks your ass be fruitful and prosperous.

-couldn't resist -
-PB


JonCleaves@... wrote:

> <<Jon,
> Will you be responding to questions after the warrior rules come out.>>
>
> Absolutely. Of course I will. And I bet I'll be much more pleasant about it.

>
> I most humbly apologize if I let you believe I would not. It's just that this
is currently kicking my ass.
>
> Jon
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Mark Mallard]

A) The rules and reference sheet seem to differ on the following - maybe a
typo on the reference sheet or in the rules.

regular D class troops

is a net + in melee reduced by one?

B) As scythed chariots are deemed to continue charging after the initial
charge - do the scythes always count in subsequent bounds? After all they are
not stopping and restarting.

An example comes to mind where in the second bound of charging contact
distance is only 40 paces. I argued that in the previous bound the chariot
had gone 120 paces, so the chariot had the momentum for the scythes to count.

C) A unit two elements wide of say legionaries already fighting against a one
wide pike unit for two bounds and hence now fighting as other infantry
against the pikes. In the third round another unit charges in against the
overlapping element of legionaries, does it get HTW again, or just other
infantry weapons.

D) I dont know how you guys play 1600 points to a finish in under 4 hours? I
timed our two moves today at 40 minutes per move (we are in the middle of the
game having started it last week).

mark mallard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

A) The rules and reference sheet seem to differ on the following - maybe a
typo on the reference sheet or in the rules.

regular D class troops

is a net + in melee reduced by one?>>

Yes. Any D, not just regular. Rule is 9.43.

<<B) - do the scythes always count in subsequent bounds? >>

The rule (16.26) is "Scythes (which War dogs and stampeding cattle also count to
simulate their effect) count only if the
expendable charged or counter-charged at least 80 paces this bound, or against
troops the expendable is pursuing or breaking- or bursting- through. "

So the answer is, not always, but in those cases described in the rule.

I did not use your example because it didn't have enough detail to be clear. It
is possible for a scythed chariot to be charging in two consecutive bounds, but
it isn't *always* that way.

<<C) A unit two elements wide of say legionaries already fighting against a one
wide pike unit for two bounds and hence now fighting as other infantry
against the pikes. In the third round another unit charges in against the
overlapping element of legionaries, does it get HTW again, or just other
infantry weapons.>>

The rule <sigh> is 9.3. "(HTW) Heavy throwing weapons count only at first
contact i.e. the element charged, counter-charged, or stood to face a charge
this bound. After first contact, figures armed with HTW use 'other foot'
factors."

Since the element of HTW is standing to receive a charge by the 3d unit, that
element (and any behind it) would count HTW.

"D) I dont know how you guys play 1600 points to a finish in under 4 hours? "

Actually, I find that to be way too long to finish a game - a 1600 point game
can be over in much less time.

<<I timed our two moves today at 40 minutes per move (we are in the middle of
the
game having started it last week).>>

Slow playing styles and inexperience seem to be the biggest causes of such
things, but a 40 minute turn is extremely long even if there were 6-10 combats.
There is also the player who takes an army with highly differentiated troop
types and lots of gimmicks but does not have the experience necessary to employ
them in a timely manner. New players should stick to the basics for a while.

I have noticed that players often spend wayyyyyy too long on approaches. Try
using a timer in the approach phase... :)

J

[Patrick Byrne]

Yes,
Don't the expendables "dissappear" if they fail to pursue, destroy, or
breakthrough an enemy. Following up not being one of those spells the
demise of the Chariot.
-PB

> From: JonCleaves@...
> Reply-To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:14:29 -0400
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] rules questions
>
> <<B) - do the scythes always count in subsequent bounds? >>
>
> The rule (16.26) is "Scythes (which War dogs and stampeding cattle also count
> to simulate their effect) count only if the
> expendable charged or counter-charged at least 80 paces this bound, or against
> troops the expendable is pursuing or breaking- or bursting- through. "
>
> So the answer is, not always, but in those cases described in the rule.
>
> I did not use your example because it didn't have enough detail to be clear.
> It is possible for a scythed chariot to be charging in two consecutive bounds,
> but it isn't *always* that way.

[joncleaves]

16.26 says

"Expendables are destroyed at the end of any combat in which they do not pursue,
destroy all opponents, breakthrough or
rout. They must breakthrough if possible. "

Note the rout part.

[scott holder]

D) I dont know how you guys play 1600 points to a finish in under 4 hours? I
timed our two moves today at 40 minutes per move (we are in the middle of the
game having started it last week).

>Many players don't. In fact, that's part of many player's stragety, namely to
spend many hours setting up *one* set of combats, maximizing their chances of
winning that one set of combats so that the game is called because of time and
they add up points. You'll see this most often with knight armies that have
wonderful punch but little staying power/reserves because of the troop cost
involved. I'm waaaay over generalizing here but that's always been the trend in
timed tourney games.

>The key tactical counter is to force the game to be played at your tempo
assuming you're the type who wants to force issues early on. Again, much of it
comes down to what army you're playing. Some armies actually do take time to
develop an attack or need to wait on circumstances to occur before they can act.
Many Asiatic horse trash armies come to mind here.

>It's fascinating to watch two really good players with totally different tempos
play mind games for several hours on the tabletop. One of the *best* games that
comes to mind was one Dave Stier played against Ewan McNay perhaps 5 years ago
now (the years they do fly). Dave epitomizes the wait 3.45 hours, then attack
in 15 minutes with a medieval army style whereas Ewan was playing the pike
trash, keep the tempo of the game upbeat figuring your opponent will overlook
something so that he can pounce on it. Dave won the game and the mental battle
by deploying terrain and water in such a way that played havoc on Ewan's ability
to force an up-tempo game.

>Conversely, Dave and partner Frank Gilson played Mike Kelly and Scott McDonald
at Cold Wars, Medieval Spanish vs Midianite Arab and fought to a 3-3 tie. Mike
and Scott were the only team in the three games to fight them to a standstill.
Why? Both played low-tempo games looking to find a fault in the opponents game
which didn't occur. I've played Mike before and that's how every game is.

>If you have players who are both uptempo, 1600 point games last 3 hours tops IF
you both know the rules and don't need to lookup stuff constantly. I feel that
of the current "old guard" playing Warrior, the "tempo inclination" of the
player base is roughly 50% up tempo, 50% low tempo. Jon, Jake and me, for
example, are up tempo players. Bill is a low tempo player.

>Sometimes, one hasta become a low tempo player simply in order to survive 4
hours assuming you brought an army that wasn't optimized against all opponents
(that's usually me) or you've goofed up your deployment royally.

>I'm bringing a decidely low tempo army to Tcon this weekend, Aztecs. Of course
being the up tempo player I am, it's optimized with that in mind (more Irr A
human expendables than is probably normal). It's probably another reason why I
can't play the Yuan all that well, it's a low-tempo army that requires patience
and planning ahead about 3 bounds, not one of my strong points.

scott

[Patrick Byrne]

It's probably another reason why I can't play the Yuan all that well, it's a
low-tempo army that requires patience and planning ahead about 3 bounds, not
one of my strong points.

scott


Scott, my man,
I'm reading you loud and clear!
-PB

[Mark Mallard]

Jon,

thx for your answers. i know they were simple ones but the learners out there
do value the questions and answers found within this forum.

i need to revisit the scythed chariot question tho.

example

round one chariot charges 120 paces - does not make contact

round two same chariot would have charged 120 paces but meets a new
opponent after 40 paces
Result - Scythes do not count

personally i would have thought (in my humble opinion) that as long as the
cumulative charge reach is 80 paces then the scythes should count.

am i missing something obvious here?

mark


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

Jon,

sorry to ask this - i am teaching a beginner who does not always agree with
my interpretations of the written rule.

Unit A is fighting units X & Y (for simplicity all are legions)

unit A does more than unit Y but not 1CPF
units X&Y do more than unit A and 1CPF

result unit A recoils with both X&Y following up.

This is correct?

He was concerned about the unit that took more than it gave out following up.

mark


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Coon]

> D) I dont know how you guys play 1600 points to a finish in under 4 hours?
I
> timed our two moves today at 40 minutes per move (we are in the middle of
the
> game having started it last week).

For tournies this is done simply by quittting and calculating points. When
we play to unquestionable completion (i.e one side raises the white flag)
1600 invariabley takes us 5-6 hours.

Don

[Don Coon]

The interesting thing when I play Pman is that I play all my armies very
uptempo. When he plays his Yuan's and is pacing the game akin to a chesse
match, I am constantly pushing/urging/cajoling to get on with it. I found
the only way my EIR could beat the Yuans was to push them into an error. I
think if we had the luxury of unlimited time, Patrick would be virtually
unbeatable with the Yuans.

Don


> It's probably another reason why I can't play the Yuan all that well, it's
a
> low-tempo army that requires patience and planning ahead about 3 bounds,
not
> one of my strong points.
>
> scott
>
> Scott, my man,
> I'm reading you loud and clear!
> -PB