Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Mallard]

First i appologise if these can be clearly found in the rules. I am
merely looking for clarifications as we are a small isolated group in
the UK.

#1. A hc unit one element wide 2 elements deep was routed. If it went
directly away form opponents its path was partially blocked by
friendly close order pikemen, but by a slight diversion it could just
fit through a gap of just over an element wide to the side of the
pikemen.

What is supposed to happen?

#2. Secondly concerns shooting or more specifically javelinmen. If
units facing each other at 40 paces are not perfectly aligned element
to element overlapping in arc elements of javelin are out of range
and cannot shoot. Is this correct?

#3. Third query relates to peltasts, LMI lts, jvls in a wood. How
many ranks shoot or fight and with what? I found this section in the
rules a lttle confusing. On the whole they are well written and easy
to understand though.


ps. we had a great game, the first full 1600 pointer under these new
rules. It took about 5-6 hours but we were reading the rules as we
played.

pps. please dont cripple the seleucid scythed chariot. At 40 points
they are way too expensive. I have used them on dozens of occasions,
all they ever do is disrupt the enemy, rarely they will rout a unit.
They are easily dealt with by a good general.

mark mallard

[joncleaves]

> #1. A hc unit one element wide 2 elements deep was routed. If it went directly
away form opponents its path was partially blocked by friendly close order
pikemen, but by a slight diversion it could just fit through a gap of just over
an element wide to the side of the pikemen.
>
> What is supposed to happen?>>

They burst through the pike. The gap would have to be 2 E wide for them to
divert. 6.32

<< #2. Secondly concerns shooting or more specifically javelinmen. If
> units facing each other at 40 paces are not perfectly aligned element
> to element overlapping in arc elements of javelin are out of range
> and cannot shoot. Is this correct? >>

No, not if I understand what you are saying and I am entirely unsure that I do.

<<> #3. Third query relates to peltasts, LMI lts, jvls in a wood. How
> many ranks shoot or fight and with what?>>

They shoot 1.5 ranks with javelin. They fight 1.5 ranks LTS and 1.5 ranks with
javelin at first contact or if pursuing or if fighting elephants.

[Greg Regets]

I think these Peltasts are in woods, so would only fight as other foot with JLS
at first contact, and other foot after that, unless fighting elephants in the
wood (haha) where they would get the JLS bonus with other foot each bound.
Right?

Greg

<<> #3. Third query relates to peltasts, LMI lts, jvls in a wood. How
> many ranks shoot or fight and with what?>>

They shoot 1.5 ranks with javelin. They fight 1.5 ranks LTS and 1.5 ranks
with javelin at first contact or if pursuing or if fighting elephants.



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[Chris Bump]

In a message dated 07/31/2002 11:54:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

<< <>

Right. Missed the word woods. Teach me to hurry.

No LTS in woods, but they are still armed with it, so no JLS after first
contact in hth unless pursuing (or fighting El, as Greg points out unlikely
in woods).
>>

Lastly, since they are in the woods there is no overhead shooting. So unless
they are in skirmish formation don't they only shoot front rank figures with
Jls?
Chris

[joncleaves]

<<I think these Peltasts are in woods, so would only fight as other foot with
JLS at first contact, and other foot after that, unless fighting elephants in
the wood (haha) where they would get the JLS bonus with other foot each bound.
Right?>>

Right. Missed the word woods. Teach me to hurry.

No LTS in woods, but they are still armed with it, so no JLS after first contact
in hth unless pursuing (or fighting El, as Greg points out unlikely in woods).

[joncleaves]

<<Lastly, since they are in the woods there is no overhead shooting. So unless
they are in skirmish formation don't they only shoot front rank figures with
Jls?>>

That is correct - they would have to be in skirmish formation if the rear rank
were entirely in the woods.

[Mark Mallard]

Thx guys - atleast the replies proved it was not just me who was a bit
confused about peltasts in a wood.

The question that was not answered was the one about javelinmen ( for example
) and shooting. As it applies to all shooting and i need to know I will
rephrase it. It is best visualised by actually setting out figures.

An 4 element 1 deep LI jav unit approaches to an inch of the front of a one
element wide 4 deep pike unit. If one of the middle elements of LI is
perfectly lined up with the pikes then i assume 3 elements of Javs can shoot
(1 to the front and 2 in arc), if not perfectly lined up only 2 can shoot (2
to the front and none in arc), because those in arc are not in range.

Is this correct?

mark mallard


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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 8/9/2002 04:48:18 Central Daylight Time,
markmallard77@... writes:


> An 4 element 1 deep LI jav unit approaches to an inch of the front of a one
> element wide 4 deep pike unit. If one of the middle elements of LI is
> perfectly lined up with the pikes then i assume 3 elements of Javs can
> shoot
> (1 to the front and 2 in arc),

yes.

if not perfectly lined up only 2 can shoot (2 > to the front and none in
> arc), because those in arc are not in range.
>

If not perfectly lined up still 3 in most 'configurations'. I think
Pythagoras would tell us that if the meeting of two of the JLS elements
exactly split the P element, then the two end JLS elements would be just out
of 40p, but on my table at least, anything other than an exact split and you
can still get three shooting.



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[Mark Mallard]

Thx for your time.

I guess im not good at trying to explain my questions.

I think i really wanted confirmation that an element in arc but out of range
does not shoot. I think you have just done that.

mark mallard


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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 8/9/2002 07:19:25 Central Daylight Time,
markmallard77@... writes:


> I think i really wanted confirmation that an element in arc but out of range
>
> does not shoot.

That is correct. Note that range can be measured from an element in FRONT of
the shooting element but never from an element to the side or diagonal.


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[Mark Mallard]

yes that was my problem i guess

coming from 7th

could we get confirmation that ewan is right?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

hmmn

I believe ewan was describing how he thinks it is in warrior - his reference
to 7th was an attempt to explain why i thought the out of range but in arc
javelinmen might be eligible to shoot.

Ewan is quite right in atleast one respect, unless perfectly aligned only two
elements can possibly be in range.

I have obviously opened a can of worms here.

It obviously needs looked at carefully as in fact it affects all shooters.

I welcome further comments in the hope that a definitive answer is
forthcoming.

mark mallard


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[Ewan McNay]

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 JonCleaves@... wrote:
> if not perfectly lined up only 2 can shoot (2 > to the front and none in
> > arc), because those in arc are not in range.
> >
>
> If not perfectly lined up still 3 in most 'configurations'. I think
> Pythagoras would tell us that if the meeting of two of the JLS elements
> exactly split the P element, then the two end JLS elements would be just out
> of 40p, but on my table at least, anything other than an exact split and you
> can still get three shooting.

I don't think that this can be correct. De jure, the minimum distance
between the two units is 40 paces; i.e., that's the length of a line drawn
perpendicular to their base edges.

If the two bodies are exactly aligned, then that 40p distance applies at
the corners, and so elements adjacent to the one aligned are also at 40p
(at that one point only).

If the elements are not exactly aligned, however, then regardless of the
facing split, elements not partially in front of the enemy must be at >40p
(because a diagonal is always longer than a perpendicular) and so out of
range. Pythagoras is not required .

Note also that this is a change for those you coming from 7th, where range
would have been measured from the facing element and the adjacent one(s)
would fire as overlaps.

Ewan

[joncleaves]

<<> If the elements are not exactly aligned, however, then regardless of the
> facing split, elements not partially in front of the enemy must be at >40p
> (because a diagonal is always longer than a perpendicular) and so out of
> range. Pythagoras is not required .>>

I was being polite. I am sure that confused you.... :)

[Ewan McNay]

JonCleaves@... wrote:
>
> I don't believe he is, Mark, but does it matter either way? Rather than me
digging out my 7th rulebook, since I have answered your question about how it is
in Warrior, what is relevant about how it is in 7th?


My fault, I guess. Ignore any reference to 7th; I think we came up with
different answers on the Wrrior outcome. Sorry for the diversion.

[Difference being: Jon stated that three JLS-armed elements could shoot
regardless of the facing match-up; I believe that only two can, unless
the facing is exact, because otherwise the non-facing elements will all
be >40p]