Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Phil Gardocki]

I recently went to a tourniment and played with a borrowed Silicuid list
containg 4 Scythed Chariots.

Based on that experience, I have an ammendment suggestion regarding the
beasts.

It is almost impossible to get the scythed bonus on charge with the two rules
in question. The first requires the chariot to have rush orders and close at
max speed, and the other requires an 80 pace charge before the scythes are in
effect.
I have no disagreement with either of these rules, but the combined effect is
that the chariots march to 240p and then approach to 120p. Even if the enemy
is a huge pike block, all he has to do is step forward 41p, and the scythe
bonus is nulified.
If the 80p charge rule was modified to a combined charge + approach > 120p,
this would reflect the space required to get up to speed and allow the scythe
bonus.

In the tourniment I only got the bonus once while charging, and that was
against an artillery piece, +0.

Just my $.02.

Phil


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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/11/2003 01:52:17 Central Standard Time, PHGamer@...
writes:
It is almost impossible to get the scythed bonus on charge with the two rules
in question. The first requires the chariot to have rush orders and close at
max speed, and the other requires an 80 pace charge before the scythes are in
effect.
I have no disagreement with either of these rules, but the combined effect is
that the chariots march to 240p and then approach to 120p. Even if the enemy
is a huge pike block, all he has to do is step forward 41p, and the scythe
bonus is nulified.
Phil
Please look at the following two concepts:

1. The pike cannot move 41p if they already have enemy at 40p....

2. The clarification on expendable continued charges.

We have already been asked to change this rule and have long ago decided not
to, mostly for the two reasons stated above.
Jon


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[Phil Gardocki]

I think you misunderstood my point. After marching, the scythed Chariot is
240 from the pike unit. The Pike unit moves 80 paces, the distance is now 160.
The most the chariot can move, and indeed must move is 120 paces, this
places it 40 from the pike unit. Chariot charges 40p, no bonus, even though it
moved 200p that turn. There is no way for this not to happen except by pike
unit
having a brain fart.

Phil


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[joncleaves]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, PHGamer@a... wrote:
> I think you misunderstood my point. After marching, the scythed
Chariot is
> 240 from the pike unit. The Pike unit moves 80 paces, the distance
is now 160.
> The most the chariot can move, and indeed must move is 120 paces,
this
> places it 40 from the pike unit. Chariot charges 40p, no bonus,
even though it
> moved 200p that turn. There is no way for this not to happen
except by pike unit
> having a brain fart.
>
> Phil>>

I understand you perfectly well, Phil. Try this, for example.

Preempt the pike with an LC. (I use a small 2E unit for this.) That
takes you to 40p from the pike. In mounted approaches, the scythed
chariot moves to 120p, as it must. It is now 120p from the pike who
cannot get closer....

Or

A scythed chariot marches on threes. Let's say this is 15mm, so a
max of 18". They don't have to start at the very edge of the
deployment zone....pike would march 12" from a 6" start.... who says
you have to be 6" apart after bound one....

Brain fart indeed. :)

Jon

[Doug]

>There is no way for this not to happen except by pike unit
>having a brain fart.
>
>Phil

I think Jon's point is that you have to stick another unit in front
of the Pikes to hold them in place.

The design theory might be that if not pinned, the Pike could open
its ranks to let the chariot pass through harmlessly.
--

Doug
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[Greg Preston]

Dear Jon,

it sounds from your answer (below) as if we may have been playing
something wrong down here in Oz.
The order which applies to the Scythed Chariot is RUSH (4.51).
Therefore it must .............move as fast as possible until within
charge reach........

At the end of marches, a Scythed chariot is 240 paces from a Pike unit.
The pike unit moves forward 80 paces thus making the distance between
the bodies 160 paces.
The chariot now must obey its orders. At the point in the chariots move
where it has moved forward 40 paces it has fulfilled its orders hasn't
it. It has moved as fast as possible until it is in charge reach. ie at
the point where it is in charge reach it no longer has an imperative to
move as fast as possible.

There has been much discussion on the words -until within charge reach-
This seemed to be the only reason we could come up with for the
inclusion of the phrase.

It seems from your answer below that this is not possible.

Could you please clarify.

Greg P.

On 12/12/2003, at 1:33 PM, joncleaves wrote:

> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, PHGamer@a... wrote:
> > I think you misunderstood my point.  After marching, the scythed
> Chariot is
> > 240 from the pike unit.  The Pike unit moves 80 paces, the distance
> is now 160.
> >  The most the chariot can move, and indeed must move is 120 paces,
> this
> > places it 40 from the pike unit.  Chariot charges 40p, no bonus,
> even though it
> > moved 200p that turn.  There is no way for this not to happen
> except by pike unit
> > having a brain fart.
> >
> > Phil>>
>
> I understand you perfectly well, Phil.  Try this, for example.
>
> Preempt the pike with an LC.  (I use a small 2E unit for this.)  That
> takes you to 40p from the pike.  In mounted approaches, the scythed
> chariot moves to 120p, as it must.  It is now 120p from the pike who
> cannot get closer....
>
> Or
>
> A scythed chariot marches on threes.  Let's say this is 15mm, so a
> max of 18".  They don't have to start at the very edge of the
> deployment zone....pike would march 12" from a 6" start.... who says
> you have to be 6" apart after bound one....
>
> Brain fart indeed. 
>
> Jon
>
>
>
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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/11/2003 23:34:48 Central Standard Time,
edgdp@... writes:
At the end of marches, a Scythed chariot is 240 paces from a Pike unit.
The pike unit moves forward 80 paces thus making the distance between
the bodies 160 paces.
The chariot now must obey its orders. At the point in the chariots move
where it has moved forward 40 paces it has fulfilled its orders hasn't
it. It has moved as fast as possible until it is in charge reach. ie at
the point where it is in charge reach it no longer has an imperative to
move as fast as possible.
This is true. It seemed to me Phil was asking something else than this, so I
am sorry if my answer to his question caused confusion.


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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/11/2003 23:37:55 Central Standard Time,
rockd@... writes:
I think Jon's point is that you have to stick another unit in front
of the Pikes to hold them in place.
Partly true. That is one way to go. But simply approaching second and
stopping at 120p works the simplest.


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