Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I'm toying with another idea for 1600 point army in 15mm. Hun.

Besides all the cool HC and Mcm and various subject peoples like
Alans, Franks, etc, this list offers a means of introducing large
scale shooting by LC like no other.

Core of the army would be 10x12E IrgB/D LC J/B/sh B. 1 element
of "B" morale and front rank with JLS/sh. All of this for just under
1000 points :)

Running the units 3 deep in skirmish, they shoot 16@X close and 12@X
distant. They also automatically fight 1.5 ranks deep in most HTH.

Did I mention the camels of disorder:)

Toss in a couple of 2E HC units to charge the enemy LMI, and add some
allies and get LMI B and HI HTW for elephant care an feeding. :)

Just seems like a fun army to run in 15mm.

Did I mention the base scouting points total of 360...

:)

Just something to consider if you have 240 LC figures laying about.
Wanax

While that sounds impressive (May you blot out the sun with your arrows,
Grasshopper…) I would wonder if the 12e Irr LC would prove to be too
cumbersome to work with.

This is someone who has limited experience speaking, however I have fought
my Irr LC in 6E units and personally was frustrated when faced with smaller
units – and while I had the quality edge, silly things like terrain, etc.
hampered me to the point where I ate the extra few 25 point command costs
and broke them down into the 4e units. If I were skirmishing only w/ bow
armed LC and they were D class (i.e. I didn’t want to close with the enemy)
then I might use 6 E units.

My problem with large LC units is that if I want them to make it into HtH
with other LC, they are cumbersome. Skirmish only – sure. Then I would do
as you and place them in three rank deep units and fire away.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:25 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] The Hun

I'm toying with another idea for 1600 point army in 15mm. Hun.

Besides all the cool HC and Mcm and various subject peoples like
Alans, Franks, etc, this list offers a means of introducing large
scale shooting by LC like no other.

Core of the army would be 10x12E IrgB/D LC J/B/sh B. 1 element
of "B" morale and front rank with JLS/sh. All of this for just under
1000 points :)

Running the units 3 deep in skirmish, they shoot 16@X close and 12@X
distant. They also automatically fight 1.5 ranks deep in most HTH.

Did I mention the camels of disorder:)

Toss in a couple of 2E HC units to charge the enemy LMI, and add some
allies and get LMI B and HI HTW for elephant care an feeding. :)

Just seems like a fun army to run in 15mm.

Did I mention the base scouting points total of 360...

:)

Just something to consider if you have 240 LC figures laying about.
Wanax



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> While that sounds impressive (May you blot out the sun with your
arrows,
> Grasshopper…) I would wonder if the 12e Irr LC would prove to be
too
> cumbersome to work with.

This was my opinion when I read the original post. Now keep in mind
that I'm far from being an "expert" but it seems that monted units
loose much of their mobility in large blocks like that and thus
loose their greatest weapon. I tended to run LC in four element
units most of the time. The only exceptions I ever had were regular
LC that I always had a couple of units at two elements.


Anyway as my "beastly hun" post above shows, I too have been
thinking about Huns. I have the army already painted up for DBM and
have always been attratced to "bloodthirsty" or "bad guy" armies.
My design philosophy is completely different. If i may, here is
1500 point I cooked up for you all to tear apart. (note that my
design is at least partly based upon a desire to use the figures I
have on hand. Under the most recent version of DBM superior light
horse are simply not cost effective as they used to be and the Hun
army has large minimum requirements that limit the number of actual
Hun units you can field.)

1 CnC + 5 irrB Hc, l, b, sh
1 SG + 5 irrb Hc, l, b, sh
2 x 12 irrb HC, l, b, sh
6 x 8 irrc Lc, jls,b, sh/ jls,b
2 x 32 irrd MI, htw, sh (one element irrc)
32 irrd MI, jls, sh
12 irrd LI, b,sh/ b
1 (Goth) AG + 5 irrb HC,l,sh
12 irrc HC,l,sh
Units-16 scouting-117

As you can see I'm trying for alot of killing power from the lance
armed HC with enough LC to work the flanks and kill orr enemy LC and
LI. The three close order infantry units are there mostly to limit
the mobility of the enemy and tie up LI units. These are "mobile
terrain" features if you will.

Thoughts?

Martin

From what I understand, this would be incorrect. That is, being in
skirmish is not the same as overhead shooting. So you would take the
half-penalty twice and at long range, this block would count 8 figures
firing.

>
> Core of the army would be 10x12E IrgB/D LC J/B/sh B.  1 element
> of "B" morale and front rank with JLS/sh.  All of this for just under
> 1000 points
>
> Running the units 3 deep in skirmish, they shoot 16@X close and 12@X
> distant.  They also automatically fight 1.5 ranks deep in most HTH.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting Scott. Don't forget the other things hanging around.
First there are the camels, which cause disorder in horses. If
placed correctly, the enemy is disordered and allows frontal charge
by LC. Not that frontal assaults with LC are scary. The fighting
would be done by the HC L/B/sh guys hopefully, but being able to
follow on with LC might prove important. But...I never said being a
Hun was easy :)

Just thought there were some cute possibilities.
Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> While that sounds impressive (May you blot out the sun with your
arrows,
> Grasshopper…) I would wonder if the 12e Irr LC would prove to be too
> cumbersome to work with.
>
> This is someone who has limited experience speaking, however I have
fought
> my Irr LC in 6E units and personally was frustrated when faced with
smaller
> units – and while I had the quality edge, silly things like
terrain, etc.
> hampered me to the point where I ate the extra few 25 point command
costs
> and broke them down into the 4e units. If I were skirmishing only
w/ bow
> armed LC and they were D class (i.e. I didn't want to close with
the enemy)
> then I might use 6 E units.
>
> My problem with large LC units is that if I want them to make it
into HtH
> with other LC, they are cumbersome. Skirmish only – sure. Then I
would do
> as you and place them in three rank deep units and fire away.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Scott A McCoppin, AIA
> mccoppinarchitecture, pa
> 704.560.4154
> architecture@p...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:25 PM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] The Hun
>
> I'm toying with another idea for 1600 point army in 15mm. Hun.
>
> Besides all the cool HC and Mcm and various subject peoples like
> Alans, Franks, etc, this list offers a means of introducing large
> scale shooting by LC like no other.
>
> Core of the army would be 10x12E IrgB/D LC J/B/sh B. 1 element
> of "B" morale and front rank with JLS/sh. All of this for just
under
> 1000 points
>
> Running the units 3 deep in skirmish, they shoot 16@X close and 12@X
> distant. They also automatically fight 1.5 ranks deep in most HTH.
>
> Did I mention the camels of disorder:)
>
> Toss in a couple of 2E HC units to charge the enemy LMI, and add
some
> allies and get LMI B and HI HTW for elephant care an feeding.
>
> Just seems like a fun army to run in 15mm.
>
> Did I mention the base scouting points total of 360...
>
>
>
> Just something to consider if you have 240 LC figures laying about.
> Wanax
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" <mwolverton@h...> wrote:

> 1 CnC + 5 irrB Hc, l, b, sh
> 1 SG + 5 irrb Hc, l, b, sh
> 2 x 12 irrb HC, l, b, sh
> 6 x 8 irrc Lc, jls,b, sh/ jls,b
> 2 x 32 irrd MI, htw, sh (one element irrc)
> 32 irrd MI, jls, sh
> 12 irrd LI, b,sh/ b
> 1 (Goth) AG + 5 irrb HC,l,sh
> 12 irrc HC,l,sh
> Units-16 scouting-117
> Thoughts?
> Martin

Just a quick counter thought. First your design looks as though you
want to fight staticly, which is not necessarily a bad thing just not
an expected tactic from an army like Huns.

The large HC units might find some targets, but generally when you
make large HC and MC units the enemy hunts them down with foot bows
and/or kniggits. Better to run 2E units and give up some of the MI
HTW guys.

Unless you are fighting Romans, Russ, Greeks, etc. the MI HTW
probably won't see combat against most armies. If I run Nikephorians
against it, for example, I would skirmish this stuff out with LC or
LI. If using crusaders, I would use LI to hold it in place and get
around it or punch into it with 2x2E IrgA HC L/sh over a 2 bound
period (1-2 punch if you will). It is large, but I think it keeps
your own LC from operating more than annoys the enemy. Better IMO to
get the ally with Irrg LMI B in numbers to operate with the HC in the
center.

The Goth ally adds nothing here. As noted above, it is better to get
the LMI B, as you really don't have any offensive weapon supports.

In our list's general concensus, you have some shock troops, many
line and skirmish troops, yet your shock troops are not sufficient
against the predominant "killer" types such as SHK and EL.

All of that being said, yes I could run this army and win. It may be
a 4-3 or 3-1 victory or a 3-3 tie, but it could be done. To do so I
would roll for all open terrain. Then I would forcemarch the LI in
the center leaving the close order to plod along behind later making
it to the battleline some time around the 5th bound. The LC I might
forcemarch 1 or 2 on either flank and pin the enemy to the baseline
(this is key since you will be doing alot of countering, rallying
back, evading) Run the LC units in pairs so that one unit takes the
bulk of the shooting in alternating turns. After 3 or so turns of
this the enemy will near shooting tiredness (as will you), but you
now bring up the HC in whichever area has been particularly well shot
up and get off an impetuous charge. Follow on with what you can, but
this is the time you want your close order to show up and begin to
exert force.

Just my opinion, nothing more
Wanax