Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

Fellow Warriors,

A number of discussions both offline and on have made it clear a number of
gamers who played WRG 7th edition in the past are playing Warrior as they
remember 7th rather than as as Warrior. This has led to some situations that
probably would not even have come up if both players had read the rulebook.

I'm not just trying to sell rulebooks. They are not the same game, despite the
fact that they use the same essential game engine.

I recommend forgetting 7th and reading Warrior fresh.

Jon

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Jon,
That is a good suggestion that I will try to
follow. So often we fall in that trap. I for one will
try to do that!

kelly

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Jon,

I have just joined the list as I have recently decided to go back to 7th
edition...

and then I found out about the Warrior rules - the question is are they
available in the UK?

I assume that everyone thinks they are an improvement over 7th - but I would
interested in hearing from experienced players what the key differences and
improvements are.

Thanks - Gerard
----- Original Message -----
From: JonCleaves@...
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:37 AM
Subject: [WarriorRules] The Rulebook


Fellow Warriors,

A number of discussions both offline and on have made it clear a number of
gamers who played WRG 7th edition in the past are playing Warrior as they
remember 7th rather than as as Warrior. This has led to some situations that
probably would not even have come up if both players had read the rulebook.

I'm not just trying to sell rulebooks. They are not the same game, despite
the fact that they use the same essential game engine.

I recommend forgetting 7th and reading Warrior fresh.

Jon

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[joncleaves]

Gerard

Jake Kovel is our business guy and I will let him chime in with who is
distributing for us in the UK. Of course, you can always order from the
website... :)

And, yes, Warrior is better than 7th. Naturally. :)

Jon

[scott holder]

Jon said:
Jake Kovel is our business guy and I will let him chime in with who is
distributing for us in the UK. Of course, you can always order from the
website... :)And, yes, Warrior is better than 7th. Naturally. :)

And I sez:
The web site is www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com. You can order online
from there. You can order the two army list books as well since Dark
Age Warrior will most likely be ready for you late next week sometime
(when we'll debut it at Cold Wars).

I understand the natural tendency to try to compare Warrior to the "root
product". However, unless you've seen "7.6" (which didn't migrate to
the UK since nobody in the UK played 7.5), then most of the "major"
components will seem, major. Otherwise, nothing screamingly major will
leap out at you. Unless you're extremely current with the "root
product", or do some type of side by side textual comparison, it's more
or less pointless to try to compare the two.

Warrior is chock full of little things that "differ" and more
importantly, it simply puts down in writing things that were done by
"umperial fiat" here in the USofA over the years. Moreover, many of
those "umperial fiat" items were either dropped or changed into
something altogether different. Therefore, any discussion with someone
not familiar with the bulk of playing here in the USofA is more likely
to muddle things up, rather than clarify them.

Here's an example, retirements. The NASAMW Interp booklet (last
iteration, written by moi) stated that once a retirement was prompted
and done, the unit/body in question did not need further prompts to
retire as long as it did nothing else "in between" except perform
retirement moves. Was this in 7.5 or the 7.6 changes? Nope. In
Warrior, it's less clear but *only* to those (like me) who played it
under the NASAMW interp. If you sit down and read Warrior fresh, it's
clear, retirements, unless under retreat orders, must be reprompted each
bound. I'm reminded of Yoda and Luke, "unlearn what you have learned".

An example of a "major" thing that predates Warrior but to those not
familiar with 7.6, are wedges. Ain't no such thing in Warrior. The
*effect* is duplicated in other ways, the 1.5 ranks of lance-armed cav
being an example, but others will be covered by "list rules".

I'd suggest you buy the rules (am I a schill or what?) and read thru
them carefully. If you haven't played this mechanical system in many
years, chances are you won't get as confused as some of us do (raising
my hand) over "the way we usta do it" and the "way it's clearly written
in Warrior."

The one major major huge monGO improvement is that you can find things
in Warrior. Although Jon still cringes when I say this, sometimes you
need to look in 2-3 sections but in just about every instance I've
played, one can follow the logic flow and cross reference in the rules
to go from point A to point B, to point C, in order to find answer(s) to
complex questions. I feel this is a strong point in Warrior, not a weak
one.

Scott
List Ho

Scott,

thanks for the reply.

I have only ever played the original version of the rules and did not get caught
up in the amendment sheets and interpretations etc as I dont play competition
games.

Why I am looking back to this set?

Basically because I stopped playing them when DBM came out, got fed up with DBM,
moved to Armati and and lost interest in them...
when I think back to 7th I realised that I did not stop playing those rules
because I was unhappy with them.

I have been reading the rules again over the last few weeks and
realised/remembered that inside all the text that WRG managed to put together to
hide them are not a bad set of rules.

One thing I have felt about the many sets of rules written by Americans (huge
generalisation coming here) is that they are written in a more user friendly
way.

My main objective to get out of wargaming is to play a game - if Warrior will
help me to that better than DBM, Armati, original 7th or whatever then they will
get my vote!

I will check out the website - thanks for your help.

Regards - Gerard
----- Original Message -----
From: Holder, Scott <FHWA>
To: IPM Return requested (Receipt notification requested)
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [WarriorRules] The Rulebook


Jon said:
Jake Kovel is our business guy and I will let him chime in with who is
distributing for us in the UK. Of course, you can always order from the
website... :)And, yes, Warrior is better than 7th. Naturally. :)

And I sez:
The web site is www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com. You can order online
from there. You can order the two army list books as well since Dark
Age Warrior will most likely be ready for you late next week sometime
(when we'll debut it at Cold Wars).

I understand the natural tendency to try to compare Warrior to the "root
product". However, unless you've seen "7.6" (which didn't migrate to
the UK since nobody in the UK played 7.5), then most of the "major"
components will seem, major. Otherwise, nothing screamingly major will
leap out at you. Unless you're extremely current with the "root
product", or do some type of side by side textual comparison, it's more
or less pointless to try to compare the two.

Warrior is chock full of little things that "differ" and more
importantly, it simply puts down in writing things that were done by
"umperial fiat" here in the USofA over the years. Moreover, many of
those "umperial fiat" items were either dropped or changed into
something altogether different. Therefore, any discussion with someone
not familiar with the bulk of playing here in the USofA is more likely
to muddle things up, rather than clarify them.

Here's an example, retirements. The NASAMW Interp booklet (last
iteration, written by moi) stated that once a retirement was prompted
and done, the unit/body in question did not need further prompts to
retire as long as it did nothing else "in between" except perform
retirement moves. Was this in 7.5 or the 7.6 changes? Nope. In
Warrior, it's less clear but *only* to those (like me) who played it
under the NASAMW interp. If you sit down and read Warrior fresh, it's
clear, retirements, unless under retreat orders, must be reprompted each
bound. I'm reminded of Yoda and Luke, "unlearn what you have learned".

An example of a "major" thing that predates Warrior but to those not
familiar with 7.6, are wedges. Ain't no such thing in Warrior. The
*effect* is duplicated in other ways, the 1.5 ranks of lance-armed cav
being an example, but others will be covered by "list rules".

I'd suggest you buy the rules (am I a schill or what?) and read thru
them carefully. If you haven't played this mechanical system in many
years, chances are you won't get as confused as some of us do (raising
my hand) over "the way we usta do it" and the "way it's clearly written
in Warrior."

The one major major huge monGO improvement is that you can find things
in Warrior. Although Jon still cringes when I say this, sometimes you
need to look in 2-3 sections but in just about every instance I've
played, one can follow the logic flow and cross reference in the rules
to go from point A to point B, to point C, in order to find answer(s) to
complex questions. I feel this is a strong point in Warrior, not a weak
one.

Scott
List Ho





















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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

> <<I have a few queries brewing so can I assume this is the right place to
> post
> them?
> Paul Marsh>>


Query away, Paul.

Jon





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To UK based Warrior types,

The rules are available from Caliver Books over here and mine came the day
after I ordered them, most impressed.
I have a few queries brewing so can I assume this is the right place to post
them?
Paul Marsh

----- Original Message -----
From: Gerard Kilgallon <gbk@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] The Rulebook


> Jon,
>
> I have just joined the list as I have recently decided to go back to 7th
edition...
>
> and then I found out about the Warrior rules - the question is are they
available in the UK?
>
> I assume that everyone thinks they are an improvement over 7th - but I
would interested in hearing from experienced players what the key
differences and improvements are.
>
> Thanks - Gerard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JonCleaves@...
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:37 AM
> Subject: [WarriorRules] The Rulebook
>
>
> Fellow Warriors,
>
> A number of discussions both offline and on have made it clear a number
of gamers who played WRG 7th edition in the past are playing Warrior as they
remember 7th rather than as as Warrior. This has led to some situations
that probably would not even have come up if both players had read the
rulebook.
>
> I'm not just trying to sell rulebooks. They are not the same game,
despite the fact that they use the same essential game engine.
>
> I recommend forgetting 7th and reading Warrior fresh.
>
> Jon
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[scott holder]

The rules are available from Caliver Books over here and mine came the
day
after I ordered them, most impressed.
I have a few queries brewing so can I assume this is the right place to
post
them?
Paul Marsh

>Paul, welcome to the group. Also, don't forget to hit
www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com for any rules clarifications and list
updates.

>You are the second UK person to join in about a week so I'm hoping you
guys can get together and play.

>I'm gonna sound like a cheerleader here but Warrior will enable you to
rediscover the joys of this system without the constant questions and
second guessing. I think one reason why we're seeing people "return" is
that this game doesn't get boring, there is *always* something new to
deal with.

Scott
List Ho

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Paul,
Welcome! I want to further add to what Scott was
saying by telling you how wonderful it is to sit down
to a rules system that is so wonderfully
cross-referenced as is Warrior! Last night David Smith
and I sat down to play a "Fast Warrior" game and we
were able to "glide" through the rules whenever we had
a question. I truly believe that jon's contribution to
reviving and bettering Mr. Barker's rules engine is
PURE GENIUS. WRG never was this organized and
readable! This is a VERY player friendly set of rules!
Jon, the other horsemen were very wise to make you the
rules horse after all. Thanks Four Horsemen for all of
your hard work, and especially Jon for making such a
CLEAN set of rules!

Kelly Wilkinson
"Time to dust off the Burmese!"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Just to confirm Paul's experience...

I ordered my rules and lists yesterday, turned up today!

Now I have some reading for the airports and planes next week...

and obviously questions to throw at the group will be forthcoming.

regards - Gerard
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul A Marsh
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] The Rulebook


To UK based Warrior types,

The rules are available from Caliver Books over here and mine came the day
after I ordered them, most impressed.
I have a few queries brewing so can I assume this is the right place to post
them?
Paul Marsh




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]