Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

At Ewan's request:

CinC w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
Guards Reg A EHC L,B,Sh 1 238 pts

Sub w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
Cav Reg B EHC L,B 1 159 pts

Sub w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
Cav Reg B EHC L,B 1 159 pts

Cav Reg C HC L,B,Sh 2
Cav Reg C MC L,B 2 130pts

Horse Archers Reg C LC B (det) 6 77 pts

Horse Archers Reg C LC B 6 82 pts

Horse Archers Reg B LC JLS,B,Sh 1
Horse Archers Reg B LC B 1 42 pts

Horse Archers Reg B LC JLS,B,Sh 1
Horse Archers Reg B LC B 1 42 pts

Elephants w/Irr C crew 3 w/B 3 160 pts

Militia Bow Irr D LI B 9 43 pts

Militia Bow Irr D LI B 9 43 pts

Afghan Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B 6 55 pts

Afghan Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B 6 55 pts

Infantry Reg C LMI 1HCW,B,Sh 4 90 pts

Infantry Reg C LMI 1HCW,B,Sh 4 90 pts

Infantry Reg C LHI 2/1HCW,B,Sh 2 66 pts

Infantry Reg C LHI 2/1HCW,B,Sh 2 66 pts

TOTAL 1597 pts

Units 17
Figures 188
Bows 185
Scouting 70

Some commentary:

This is every last bit of light infantry you can get without taking a Persian
subgeneral, except for 6 stands of Reg C LI HG. On 2000 points I'd consider
taking them, since they're regular. I think LI is a very good thing,
particularly when you have a lot of missile vulnerable cav you're trying to
protect. This should make for an effective screen: 2 units of LI that are large
and cheap, and 2 units that are shielded in the front. These should be
interspersed with the 6 stand LC units to form the main line.

The 2 stand LC units fill gaps, and look for opportunities to charge a flank or
charge off that LI unit that made the mistake of being in skirmish. They have a
zillion other uses. Ask Ewan.

With the bow and *HCW-armed infantry available, you have less of a problem
dealing with elephants than other Mongol lists. Also, you have some elephants
of your own. I still think it's worth taking one "dismount" unit that you can
plop down in front of oncoming elephants that doesn't take a waver test for
being charged.

I considered 4 elephants in two units, and on 2000 points that's probably what
I'd do. Without LI on the base, however, I'm concerned about the vulnerability
of elephants to shooting, and putting them in 3 model units ameliorates some of
that vulnerability. Note also than since non-impetuous foot can charge together
with elephants, you can have one of the HI 2HCW units charge along side the
elephants, making for a rather hefty punch.

The other shock units, of course, are the SHC, and they are quite respectable
shock power. They'll take care of Romans, barbarian foot, and things the
elephants are otherwise vulnerable to. They'll also hold their own even against
knights, given the overall density of shooting in this army.

A gimmick that I did not explore, though worth thinking about, is to take a
small unit of camels, and camel-proof some of the cavalry. This creates a "wing
attack" that's incredibly disruptive against other people's cavalry. Probably
better on 2000 points, and probably better in 15mm where cavalry is more
prevalent.

All in all a truly awesome list. I won't be playing it in 2005 as I have other
plans, but it may get my attention come 2006.


-Mark Stone

[Ewan McNay]

Thanks, Mark.

I think that comparison to the Sassanids is illustrative of the value of
(some) list rules. Straight up, I'm content with the matchup: I have
equal SHC shock power with the advantage of being able to work near
elephants; I have more numerous and equally potent supporting mounted; I
have better LI, some close foot, and more numerous and better elephants.
I do come off worse in the loose foot arena, and the Timurids have the
advantage of regular shock troops.

But... "Aha!" cries Timur. "*My* mounted are not afraid of elephants
either - I will simply send my picked men to jump off their horses,
miraculously acquiring extra friends when they do so, and become highly
potent anti-elephant troops."

Very well, I think. I have more LC than he does. Perhaps I can trap his
LC against his mounted, if he uses it as a screen.

"I see your thought," remarks Timur. "It will not avail you. I have at
great expense acquired quantumly uncertain horses, who can pass through
one another without interacting."

Ho hum, think I. But he continues. "In any case, we will not evade but
rather fight, for these fabulous horses allow for additional men to occupy
the same frontage, increasing our potency in combat by no less than 50%!"

Truly, I must seek out these famed 'list rules.'

[Tongue of the Shar mostly in cheek. The Sass have some other tricks to
play..]

I do think that 1HCW, especially in combination with JLS, is potent, and
it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I might even play a
Mongol or two - and it I do, it'd likely be Timur, which I think is
clearly the most flexible of the OW Mongols.

In terms of 'list breakers' I think any LC army that doesn't fight 1.5
ranks is now dead; there are too many that do. But that might be the only
one. Armies that are good and hapen to have 1.5 rank LC are onto a very
good thing.

Anyway, back to real work.

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Mark Stone wrote:
> CinC w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
> Guards Reg A EHC L,B,Sh 1 238 pts
>
> Sub w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
> Cav Reg B EHC L,B 1 159 pts
>
> Sub w/Reg A SHC L,B,Sh 1
> Cav Reg B EHC L,B 1 159 pts
>
> Cav Reg C HC L,B,Sh 2
> Cav Reg C MC L,B 2 130pts
>
> Horse Archers Reg C LC B (det) 6 77 pts
>
> Horse Archers Reg C LC B 6 82 pts
>
> Horse Archers Reg B LC JLS,B,Sh 1
> Horse Archers Reg B LC B 1 42 pts
>
> Horse Archers Reg B LC JLS,B,Sh 1
> Horse Archers Reg B LC B 1 42 pts
>
> Elephants w/Irr C crew 3 w/B 3 160 pts
>
> Militia Bow Irr D LI B 9 43 pts
>
> Militia Bow Irr D LI B 9 43 pts
>
> Afghan Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B 6 55 pts
>
> Afghan Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B 6 55 pts
>
> Infantry Reg C LMI 1HCW,B,Sh 4 90 pts
>
> Infantry Reg C LMI 1HCW,B,Sh 4 90 pts
>
> Infantry Reg C LHI 2/1HCW,B,Sh 2 66 pts
>
> Infantry Reg C LHI 2/1HCW,B,Sh 2 66 pts
>
> TOTAL 1597 pts
>
> Units 17
> Figures 188
> Bows 185
> Scouting 70
>
> Some commentary:
>
> This is every last bit of light infantry you can get without taking a Persian
> subgeneral, except for 6 stands of Reg C LI HG. On 2000 points I'd consider
> taking them, since they're regular. I think LI is a very good thing,
> particularly when you have a lot of missile vulnerable cav you're trying to
> protect. This should make for an effective screen: 2 units of LI that are
large
> and cheap, and 2 units that are shielded in the front. These should be
> interspersed with the 6 stand LC units to form the main line.
>
> The 2 stand LC units fill gaps, and look for opportunities to charge a flank
or
> charge off that LI unit that made the mistake of being in skirmish. They have
a
> zillion other uses. Ask Ewan.
>
> With the bow and *HCW-armed infantry available, you have less of a problem
> dealing with elephants than other Mongol lists. Also, you have some elephants
> of your own. I still think it's worth taking one "dismount" unit that you can
> plop down in front of oncoming elephants that doesn't take a waver test for
> being charged.
>
> I considered 4 elephants in two units, and on 2000 points that's probably what
> I'd do. Without LI on the base, however, I'm concerned about the vulnerability
> of elephants to shooting, and putting them in 3 model units ameliorates some
of
> that vulnerability. Note also than since non-impetuous foot can charge
together
> with elephants, you can have one of the HI 2HCW units charge along side the
> elephants, making for a rather hefty punch.
>
> The other shock units, of course, are the SHC, and they are quite respectable
> shock power. They'll take care of Romans, barbarian foot, and things the
> elephants are otherwise vulnerable to. They'll also hold their own even
against
> knights, given the overall density of shooting in this army.
>
> A gimmick that I did not explore, though worth thinking about, is to take a
> small unit of camels, and camel-proof some of the cavalry. This creates a
"wing
> attack" that's incredibly disruptive against other people's cavalry. Probably
> better on 2000 points, and probably better in 15mm where cavalry is more
> prevalent.
>
> All in all a truly awesome list. I won't be playing it in 2005 as I have other
> plans, but it may get my attention come 2006.
>
>
> -Mark Stone
>
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