Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/4/2003 19:36:28 Central Daylight Time,
rockd@... writes:

> OTOH, if two players think that some unit ought to be afforded an
> Elite status in their game, how should they go about it without
> "breaking" the game balance?
>

Personally I have NO problem with Greg's list rules for Varangians in any
game he wants to use them in where his opponent agrees. This is also true of
any
decision we make that players disagree with. Once you buy the list book (or
rules) you can play them any way your group wants.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

This Varangian discussion reminds me of something I read by a WHFB
player. He pointed out that Strength 3 was supposed to be the basic
value for humanoids; but observed that every published GW list
contained more & more "special" units with higher stats, and it was
to the point that something like half the units allowable had S=4 or
better. The result was that lists which didn't maximize the S=4
units were not viable.

OTOH, if two players think that some unit ought to be afforded an
Elite status in their game, how should they go about it without
"breaking" the game balance?

[Kelly Wilkinson]

To be honest Doug,
I can't understand how untrained Fanatics "A" class can have more combat
potential than Elite household guards. It seems that the Guard units are the
best of the best in a realm. One must assume that they train daily to maintain
their edge as they are the only thing between the King/Emperor/Sultan and the
enemy when engaged in battle! I would love to see something done to improve the
combat potential of all Reg A units if not just household units. Certainly Elan
in these units must count for something when they accompany a royal personage in
battle. Rather than just bringing the dice up as "B" class do, it seems that
they should have the potential to do catastropic damage on an up roll as do
their Irregular "A" counterparts.

Kelly


Doug <rockd@...> wrote:
This Varangian discussion reminds me of something I read by a WHFB
player. He pointed out that Strength 3 was supposed to be the basic
value for humanoids; but observed that every published GW list
contained more & more "special" units with higher stats, and it was
to the point that something like half the units allowable had S=4 or
better. The result was that lists which didn't maximize the S=4
units were not viable.

OTOH, if two players think that some unit ought to be afforded an
Elite status in their game, how should they go about it without
"breaking" the game balance?

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jake Kovel]

In a message dated 7/5/03 1:33:33 AM, jwilkinson62@... writes:


>      I can't understand how untrained Fanatics "A" class can have more
> combat potential than Elite household guards. It seems that the Guard units
are
> the best of the best in a realm. One must assume that they train daily to
> maintain their edge as they are the only thing between the King/Emperor/Sultan
> and the enemy when engaged in battle! I would love to see something done to
> improve the combat potential of all Reg A units if not just household units.
> Certainly Elan in these units must count for something when they accompany a
> royal personage in battle. Rather than just bringing the dice up as "B" class
> do, it seems that they should have the potential to do catastropic damage on
an
> up roll as do their Irregular "A" counterparts.
>
>

I think we need to understand the fundamental difference between Irregular A
and Regular A. First, there is nothing in the description of Irregular A
that defines them as "untrained." In fact, Irregular A troops may be highly
trained. You cannot tell me that medieval knights were not trained in the art
of war. In some cases, that is all they were trained to do. Irregular
refers to organization, not training. Second, there are advantages that A
class
troops that B class ones don't. The key one is never being uneasy. This
applies whether the unit is tired or unsupported or any other combination. The
same is not true for B class troops. Third, the combat results modifiers are
designed to reflect that a Regular A unit fights under control while an
Irregular A unit fights on emotion. It is less likely that a controlled unit
will
panic and fight poorly, and also less likely that it will go crazy. A unit
that fights on emotion is more subject to the changing fortunes of battle. I
think this is accurately depicted by the current combat modifiers used in
Warrior.
Jacob Kovel
Sales Ho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Jake,
Well said! And thanks for the reply. When I wrote the term "untrained" I
figured that everyone knew I meant untrained as a unit. It boggles the mind that
the most skilled warriors in the game are not permitted to exact catastrophic
damage from their sheer skill, superior training, and discipline. Further, one
would think that bodyguard units of "A" quality (No matter how many elements
there are and not just one with a general) who are bodyguards would be immune to
waiver tests when seeing troops they view as inferior breaking. In fact, it
would seem to me that having more troops in the bodyguard unit would be a
psychological boon. I don't think Regular "A's" are gods, but they should be
able to not merely withstand attacks, they should be the meanest (Pardon my
french) sons of biscuit eaters on the field of battle! nuff said.

Kelly Wilkinson

Eaglewars@... wrote:

In a message dated 7/5/03 1:33:33 AM, jwilkinson62@... writes:


> I can't understand how untrained Fanatics "A" class can have more
> combat potential than Elite household guards. It seems that the Guard units
are
> the best of the best in a realm. One must assume that they train daily to
> maintain their edge as they are the only thing between the King/Emperor/Sultan
> and the enemy when engaged in battle! I would love to see something done to
> improve the combat potential of all Reg A units if not just household units.
> Certainly Elan in these units must count for something when they accompany a
> royal personage in battle. Rather than just bringing the dice up as "B" class
> do, it seems that they should have the potential to do catastropic damage on
an
> up roll as do their Irregular "A" counterparts.
>
>

I think we need to understand the fundamental difference between Irregular A
and Regular A. First, there is nothing in the description of Irregular A
that defines them as "untrained." In fact, Irregular A troops may be highly
trained. You cannot tell me that medieval knights were not trained in the art
of war. In some cases, that is all they were trained to do. Irregular
refers to organization, not training. Second, there are advantages that A
class
troops that B class ones don't. The key one is never being uneasy. This
applies whether the unit is tired or unsupported or any other combination. The
same is not true for B class troops. Third, the combat results modifiers are
designed to reflect that a Regular A unit fights under control while an
Irregular A unit fights on emotion. It is less likely that a controlled unit
will
panic and fight poorly, and also less likely that it will go crazy. A unit
that fights on emotion is more subject to the changing fortunes of battle. I
think this is accurately depicted by the current combat modifiers used in
Warrior.
Jacob Kovel
Sales Ho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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