Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Doug]

What are the tactics for using detachments, especially these Irr A loonies?

I suppose you keep them in the back so any shooting CPF are divided
into the whole unit; but then do they just interpenetrate their unit
when they charge?

Do you have to formally "detach" them before they can charge
independantly of the unit? How do you do this if they are in the
rear? It doesn't make sense to move them backwards a millimeter.
--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

I live in Maryland. We top the list for heroin addiction, syphilis,
violent crime, and political corruption. So if you visit, expect to
be drugged, raped, robbed, and then taxed for the experience.[Attrib
to Bulldozer]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 10/24/2002 07:43:22 Central Daylight Time,
rockd@... writes:

> OTOH, many many years ago when Jon was routinely getting stomped in my
> baseme
> >nt,

Ooh, you weasel! Win a quick one in Fast Warrior and think you're somethin'
huh? Go read a rulebook... :)

Problem is, it's all true.... lol


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 10/24/2002 08:12:35 Central Daylight Time,
Scott.Holder@... writes:

> In some ways, this is not unlike how Ewan/Chris ran the cheesy Spanish at
> team
> s several years ago which Darrell and I copied earlier this year.
>

Yeah, and got taught by your betters.....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 10/24/2002 08:25:07 Central Daylight Time,
Scott.Holder@... writes:

> Jon,
> Don't pick on Scott because he can't play, Smitty carried him as best
> he could...>>

Actually, after the first Spanish unit broke, all Smitty did was read a
book....too bad it wasn't Warrior! :)

>
> -Boy, just you all wait until Cold Wars. I'm gonna have soooo much beer
> with
> fruit, you won't be able to breath:):)

Now THAT frightens me!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott holder]

What are the tactics for using detachments, especially these Irr A loonies?

>My favorite is two purchase a 2 element unit of Hirdsmen and give it a 2 elem
ent detachment of Berserkers. The Beserkers fight in the front rank, Hirdsmen
in the second. The question is how to arm them. If you give the Beserkers 2
SA and the Hirdsmen either 2HCW or JLS, the latter *still* fight 1.5 ranks. T
herefore, outside of pike, you fight more people on a frontage than anybody el
se. Toss in the Irr A wildcard and you can see the potential shock value here
.

>OTOH, many many years ago when Jon was routinely getting stomped in my baseme
nt, I played a series of Dark Age games against Walt Leach. He would instead
arm the above unit solely with 2HCW figuring it was a throw away unit to begin
with and the extra factors almost always ensured loads of casualities on the
other guy and somewhat mitigating a down roll for the A's. And while you don'
t have the figures per frontage, you do get 5 figures fighting at an 8 factor
against most infantry targets assuming you tee off impetuously.

>OTOH, another approach is to organize the Beserkers totally separate into 4 s
eparate 2 element units armed with 2HCW and definitely make them disposable.
They're designed to charge impetuously first and presumably disorder whatever
body they hit (baring whacko dice fluxuations) and you then follow up with Hir
dsmen. You essentially have 4 human projectile missiles at your disposal.

>Don't forget that Bondi archers, LHI JLS, B, Sh are good troops, particularly
in FW where they shoot, take shots pretty well (specially considering they do
n't often get shot back at) and can charge impetuously.

scott

[Doug]

So how do you keep these tiny bodies from getting shot to smithereens?

If I can figure this game out maybe I can get Walt off of his DBR fixation.

>What are the tactics for using detachments, especially these Irr A loonies?
>
>>My favorite is two purchase a 2 element unit of Hirdsmen and give it a 2 elem
>ent detachment of Berserkers. The Beserkers fight in the front rank, Hirdsmen
> in the second. The question is how to arm them. If you give the Beserkers 2
>SA and the Hirdsmen either 2HCW or JLS, the latter *still* fight 1.5 ranks. T
>herefore, outside of pike, you fight more people on a frontage than anybody el
>se. Toss in the Irr A wildcard and you can see the potential shock value here
>.
>
>>OTOH, many many years ago when Jon was routinely getting stomped in my baseme
>nt, I played a series of Dark Age games against Walt Leach. He would instead
>arm the above unit solely with 2HCW figuring it was a throw away unit to begin
> with and the extra factors almost always ensured loads of casualities on the
>other guy and somewhat mitigating a down roll for the A's. And while you don'
>t have the figures per frontage, you do get 5 figures fighting at an 8 factor
>against most infantry targets assuming you tee off impetuously.
>
>>OTOH, another approach is to organize the Beserkers totally separate into 4 s
>eparate 2 element units armed with 2HCW and definitely make them disposable.
>They're designed to charge impetuously first and presumably disorder whatever
>body they hit (baring whacko dice fluxuations) and you then follow up with Hir
>dsmen. You essentially have 4 human projectile missiles at your disposal.
>
>>Don't forget that Bondi archers, LHI JLS, B, Sh are good troops, particularly
> in FW where they shoot, take shots pretty well (specially considering they do
>n't often get shot back at) and can charge impetuously.
>
>scott

[scott holder]

So how do you keep these tiny bodies from getting shot to smithereens?

It's no different than any other 4 element body getting shot to pieces issue i
n the game. You need either light troops out there to do what light troops do
, or checkerboard your units with the leading edge of some forward of the tiny
bodies so that *they* get shot instead of you. I'm not explaining this very
well but several of the conversations in here recently (deriving from ewan's p
ost) imply this approach.

For example, since I'll assume you have Irr A in the front rank of one of thes
e tiny bodies, you attempt to put it in a position so that it's exactly 120p a
way from the target. You have another, larger body off to one side of the Irr
A one but move it closer to the target and make sure there's some overlap. S
hooting priority flows from there. It really helps if the larger body can als
o shoot since that will also suck fire from the potential target.

In some ways, this is not unlike how Ewan/Chris ran the cheesy Spanish at team
s several years ago which Darrell and I copied earlier this year.

[scott holder]

Ooh, you weasel! Win a quick one in Fast Warrior and think you're somethin'
huh? Go read a rulebook... :)

-Why start now? hee hee hee. Plus, reading rules would get in the way of arm
y list production. Problem is that I *really* need to play more and play regu
larly. And.....ain't all Fast Warrior games quick? Oops, player dependent:):
) Well, at least Jon and me play quick FW games

Problem is, it's all true.... lol

-Actually, this is another nifty "plus" FW brings to the table, literally. Ne
w players in Warrior when faced with mastering a 1600 point game all the while
learning the incredible nuances this game has to offer (gotta cheerlead here)
tend to get the crapola beat out of them for a long long time. I've noticed
FW doesn't replicate this. Yes, there are subtle relationships that go on (se
e Tom McMillen's FW post-mortem from CW for a good example of that) but they a
re easier to see and with fewer units to move, the game becomes much easier to
grasp.

-And a comment Jon made during our recent FW game really hit home another feat
ure in FW. In order to *win* games, you need to accept the fact you'll be eng
aged in melees that are more or less "equal". No squirrling around for 3 hour
s trying to set up that "perfect" charge (okay, I love doing that too). Plus,
with army breakpoints at 4, you will often attempt things you wouldn't otherw
ise consider in "real" Warrior.

-So, it appears that playing FW actually gives new players a reasonable chance
to win a game or three while mastering the rules.

scott

[Ewan McNay]

Doug wrote:
>
> What are the tactics for using detachments, especially these Irr A loonies?
>
> I suppose you keep them in the back so any shooting CPF are divided
> into the whole unit; but then do they just interpenetrate their unit
> when they charge?

it is permissible to *start* the game with any formation desired. So,
one possibility is to have them forming the front rank of a large Bondi
unit. This gives them bulk for e.g. shooting CPF and allows the IrrA
guys to move off the front easily.

Trying to get them back into play having once been absorbed back into a
parent body is harder .

> Do you have to formally "detach" them before they can charge
> independantly of the unit? How do you do this if they are in the
> rear? It doesn't make sense to move them backwards a millimeter.

That would indeed be an illegal move (at least as I read things). Yes,
they would have to be separated. NO, such an interpenetration would be
(again, as I recall) illegal. But again, this is rules stuff .

e

[scott holder]

Jon,
Don't pick on Scott because he can't play, Smitty carried him as best
he could...

-Boy, just you all wait until Cold Wars. I'm gonna have soooo much beer with
fruit, you won't be able to breath:):)

scott

[Chris Damour]

Jon,
Don't pick on Scott because he can't play, Smitty carried him as best
he could...

--
Chris Damour

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 JonCleaves@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/24/2002 08:12:35 Central Daylight Time,
> Scott.Holder@... writes:
>
> > In some ways, this is not unlike how Ewan/Chris ran the cheesy Spanish at
> > team
> > s several years ago which Darrell and I copied earlier this year.
> >
>
> Yeah, and got taught by your betters.....

[scott holder]

it is permissible to *start* the game with any formation desired. So,
one possibility is to have them forming the front rank of a large Bondi
unit. This gives them bulk for e.g. shooting CPF and allows the IrrA
guys to move off the front easily.

-I meant to suggest this earlier. Another organizational approach copied from
the Damour/McNay cheesball Spanish list would be to purchase a 10 element uni
t of Warriors and a 2 element detachment of Beserkers. The Beserkers remain a
ttached to the Warriors throughout the game, staying in the front rank thus el
iminating unease issues. You pay 10 more command points for this privelege an
d you still have a unit that tests like Cs, not to mention having two elements
in the front rank that at some point in H-T-H will become shieldless. Noneth
eless, it's an intriguing application of something that's worked well to a Dar
k Age list.

-Now, your Hirdsmen, organized into 2 element units, become the human projecti
les. Of course all these 25 pt command costs add up so at 1600 or 1200 points,
you might change things somewhat. Nah, just have fewer mongo-sized Warrior/B
eserk blocks which might free you up for perhaps 1-2 2-element Beserk projecti
les.

scott