Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I'm not a top player, but I have to disagree about JLS armed infantry.
I ran Mycenaean Greeks a bunch of times in the last few years. I agree,
it is not a competative army, but despite any number of games with
Wallachians, Ottomans, Medieval Spanish, etc., I cannot remember one of
my JLS units getting run over by cavalry. In fact, one of the best
things I learned playing Lists 18 and 19 is how to make something out of
very little (my TO friends call them the naked guys with fire-hardenned
sticks) instead of my more usual Rolls Royce armies (Byzantines and Knights)

I agree that it is always alarming to start a game knowing that an
opponent has a unit that can "just win" a matchup. But those matchups
don't often happen just the way we worked them out with pencil and
paper. Often, players of knight armies may salivate at the prospect of
routing my JLS armed infantry, but when the crunch comes, their knights
have other, more pressing tactical issues. Or they hit tired, or they
roll down--it's never as pure as it seems.

In point of fact, at the doubles a few years ago, my newbie partner
didn't know any better and vanquished a unit of knights with some JLS
armed infantry. Of course, he rolled +4 two turns in a row, but since
no one had told him how doomed he was... : )

A little terrain and some clever skirmishers can help a bunch, too.

Every time the rules evolve, a lot of matchups change, some subtly, some
profoundly. I'm afraid I like that. otherwise we'd stagnate.



Just my 2 cents,
Christian

>
>

[joncleaves]

Christian, I am with ya, brother. I have a mandatory unit of JLS Sh in a list I
have been messing with recently and it has forced me to make them work. I have
found a number of useful roles and situations. I would tell you that while as
an amateur historian it is clear to me why every winning military system
eventually sought a method superior to the fire-hardened stick, that it is also
clear that your message that simple pencil and paper one-one calculations do not
a complete game make is dead on.

Keep up the Lord's work!
Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian and Sarah <cgc.sjw@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:38:43 -0500
Subject: [WarriorRules] Worthless with JLS? was Re: Army List Review


I'm not a top player, but I have to disagree about JLS armed infantry.
I ran Mycenaean Greeks a bunch of times in the last few years. I agree,
it is not a competative army, but despite any number of games with
Wallachians, Ottomans, Medieval Spanish, etc., I cannot remember one of
my JLS units getting run over by cavalry. In fact, one of the best
things I learned playing Lists 18 and 19 is how to make something out of
very little (my TO friends call them the naked guys with fire-hardenned
sticks) instead of my more usual Rolls Royce armies (Byzantines and Knights)

I agree that it is always alarming to start a game knowing that an
opponent has a unit that can "just win" a matchup. But those matchups
don't often happen just the way we worked them out with pencil and
paper. Often, players of knight armies may salivate at the prospect of
routing my JLS armed infantry, but when the crunch comes, their knights
have other, more pressing tactical issues. Or they hit tired, or they
roll down--it's never as pure as it seems.

In point of fact, at the doubles a few years ago, my newbie partner
didn't know any better and vanquished a unit of knights with some JLS
armed infantry. Of course, he rolled +4 two turns in a row, but since
no one had told him how doomed he was... : )

A little terrain and some clever skirmishers can help a bunch, too.

Every time the rules evolve, a lot of matchups change, some subtly, some
profoundly. I'm afraid I like that. otherwise we'd stagnate.



Just my 2 cents,
Christian

>
>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Frank Gilson]

I certainly don't want to send knights or elephants or any other
mounted into a big puffy unit of JLS,Sh...unless they're loose order
in the open and I'm causing a waver by charging them.

Why? Well, the points differential is terrible. To rout you at
contact I need 3 or 4 times your points! Where's the rest of my army?
What's it doing?

You need to have high morale troops in the 'gaps' between your lesser
morale fire-hardened-stick guys, though...or I will send my knights
boot-to-boot into one of your units to rout it and cause lots of poor
wavers on your part.

What's the real problem for big bodies of MI or LMI JLS,Sh? High
quality enemy infantry...which will grind it out and repeatedly cause
wavers, eventually routing your cheaper troops that way.

Enemy Pikemen, Hypaspists, Halberdiers, etc...are your real nightmare.

Frank

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Christian and Sarah
<cgc.sjw@s...> wrote:
>
> I'm not a top player, but I have to disagree about JLS armed
infantry.
> I ran Mycenaean Greeks a bunch of times in the last few years. I
agree,
> it is not a competative army, but despite any number of games with
> Wallachians, Ottomans, Medieval Spanish, etc., I cannot remember
one of
> my JLS units getting run over by cavalry. In fact, one of the best
> things I learned playing Lists 18 and 19 is how to make something
out of
> very little (my TO friends call them the naked guys with fire-
hardenned
> sticks) instead of my more usual Rolls Royce armies (Byzantines and
Knights)
>
> I agree that it is always alarming to start a game knowing that an
> opponent has a unit that can "just win" a matchup. But those
matchups
> don't often happen just the way we worked them out with pencil and
> paper. Often, players of knight armies may salivate at the
prospect of
> routing my JLS armed infantry, but when the crunch comes, their
knights
> have other, more pressing tactical issues. Or they hit tired, or
they
> roll down--it's never as pure as it seems.
>
> In point of fact, at the doubles a few years ago, my newbie partner
> didn't know any better and vanquished a unit of knights with some
JLS
> armed infantry. Of course, he rolled +4 two turns in a row, but
since
> no one had told him how doomed he was... : )
>
> A little terrain and some clever skirmishers can help a bunch, too.
>
> Every time the rules evolve, a lot of matchups change, some subtly,
some
> profoundly. I'm afraid I like that. otherwise we'd stagnate.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 cents,
> Christian
>
> >
> >
>