Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

unit A is a 4E HC L,B,Sh unit in 2 ranks
it is opposed by units 1 and 2
unit 1, in front, is a 6E LI JLS,Sh unit in 2 ranks
unit 2, directly behind by some 130p or so, is a 2E HK L,Sh unit

unit A breaks unit 1 in HtH and unit 1 ends HtH with 13 FP + 2 FP for a rout move = 15 FP total

unit A rolls long for pursuit, giving it enough distance that it could hit unit 2

QUESTION(s)
does unit 1 stay on the table long enough to stop unit A's pursuit then vaporize?
or does unit A continue and convert into unit 2? with no charge responses (hence "convert into")

(we played the former, though I confess neither of us could figure out the right way to handle this and it was of huge relevance to the game)

there used to be something about being uncovered by LI but I do not see that in the new rulebook.

[Steve]

Hello John,

Firstly, this should in no way be construed as an answer to your question, but while you are awaiting the definitive reply from Jon this may (or may not) help in forming your own conclusion.

I posted a similiar question concerning pursuing routers that become exhausted. It is message number 7 on P3 of this section. see Jon's reply to that.

Then, look at the paragraph on P55 which begins 'Routers take fatigue (5.3) for doing so. A body that becomes exhausted while routing is destroyed at the end of the rout move (5.24).

Then 5.24 (P29) Destroyed Troops. Then 6.167 (P51) Converted Charge.

Then, as I said, await Jon's definitive answer, which is probably delayed by his having to plough through a veritable avalanche of questions posted by me

Regards, Steve

[joncleaves]

QUESTION(s)
does unit 1 stay on the table long enough to stop unit A's pursuit then vaporize? >>

No. It makes a rout move. It does not take the FP for routing until it does this, then it dies. Which means Unit A pursues and does whatever it does with respect to the bodies around it.

[Ewan McNay]

I want to check that I understand the answer here, as I suspect it is different to how I've played.

e.g. my HC are pursuing some routing HI. The HI roll for their rout move, which is short and hence 40p. The FP for that rout move make them exhausted, and they are hence removed at the end of this move.

Are you saying that the HC pursuit move is *not* limited to the 40p moved by the HI, and that they would hence roll for a pursuit move and might be able to reach a target as far as 240p away with a long pursuit?

[Raphael]

Hello Ewan,

I am just going to interject here by saying that I feel this an example of what I was trying to convey in my earlier posting.

Even though I, and perhaps many others are screaming what we just know to be the right answer at the monitor, I am not even going to suggest the right answer to your question, that is, as I have said solely Jon's perogative, and will remain so.

But, there is obviously a clear misunderstanding/misinterpretation of this rule by some players. So, with that in mind, I have sent a posting to 'tactics', (you can rout but..) so we perhaps just chew over what we think is being portrayed by this rule, without either clogging this vital artery or hopefully muddying the thinking even more.

Raphael

[joncleaves]

6.33:

"After the variable distance is determined, pursuers move the full distance
they are capable of, or the same distance as the pursued,
whichever is least."

So, if the HI dies at 40p, that is as far as the pursuers go. Unless of course their variable move turns out to be 0p...

For the life of me, I cannot see how that sentence can be read another way...

[Raphael]

Hello Jon,

I think more than one of us were missing the 'trees for the wood' in this respect and just failing to grasp that even though the pursuer may throw long, 6.33 makes it clear that the maximum pursuit move is always limited to that of the routed unit.

Perhaps being slightly disingenuous, your initial response 'that the unit pursues and does whatever it does with respect to the bodies around it.'
is much less clear than your subsequent answer.

Indeed you could I think now even argue that from the initial example, the unit does indeed stay on the table long enough to stop A's pursuit before it vaporises is a correct assessment.

But thanks again for clearing all this up, Raphael

[joncleaves]

[[Perhaps being slightly disingenuous, your initial response 'that the unit pursues and does whatever it does with respect to the bodies around it.'
is much less clear than your subsequent answer. ]]

I answered that way because the question contained no information about other or bodies in the vicinity. It might be, for example, that a body routs 120p and becomes exhausted and is destroyed, but the pursuer who rolled 160p for pursuit can't get past another body 80p in front of it and hits it in a converted charge. No way to make a blanket statement about where a pursuer might end up unless the exact on-table situation is made clear.

[Ewan McNay]

I'm glad that what I thought the rules said is, indeed, correct, Jon. I agree that it's clear. I just read your first answer as being in contradiction to that.

Phew .