Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Bill Chriss]

John,

Rule 6.33, penultimate sentence, reads: "Bodies breaking through are not disordered simply by doing so." (emphasis added)

6.51 says That if you interpenetrate chariots or disordered bodies, you are disordered.

Question #1 : Does this mean that a unit in good order after combat that chooses to breakthrough either an enemy chariot or a disordered enemy is disordered, i.e., has made a disordering interpenetration? It would seem so, reading the two provisions together.

Question #2: Assuming the answer to #1 is yes, would the same result obtain even if the enemy unit was just disordered by the very combat that produced the opportunity to breakthrough? It would seem so, given the move sequence.

[joncleaves]

#1 yes.

#2 no. that is all simultaneous.

[wargame692000]

[Mark Stone]

OK, so I have an odd follow up question to this:
* Unit A is disordered and charged by Unit B, which is also disordered;
* As a result of combat, B is eligible to, and opts to break through A;
* This is a second cause of disorder for A, and a combat cause of disorder for A, and hence A must waver test.

This is also a second cause of disorder for B. It appears to be a combat cause of disorder. Must B waver test?


-Mark Stone

[joncleaves]

Paul - no change I am aware of.

Mark - no. The cause of disorder for the breaking through guy is a movement cause (interpenetrating a disordered body), not a "combat cause" (like 3CPF or some such).

[Ewan McNay]

I'm not sure that I've ever considered it, but I think that I agree with Paul: the concept that a unit would not become disordered for breaking through enemy, but *does* become disordered if that enemy is less cohesive, is.. odd.

I *know* that both I and opponents have played this apparently wrong whenever it has come up - as I say, without anyone even thinking about it; the most common case that comes to mind is a unit of loose foot that failed the waver for being charged and is now being broken through to force a second waver; the unit of e.g. knights doing the breakthrough is *not* going to be able to manouvre freely in the back field as has been the usual practice .

[Frank Gilson]

Correct...

But a careful reading of the rules and as Jon states that's what happens. If you interpenetrate disordered troops, you are disordered...nothing states that breakers-thru get a free pass on that...and a break through is an interpenetration.

Frank

[wargame692000]

[Ian Poade]

Doesn't the fact that the unit originaly charged make it a "Must Rally"?

[Mark Stone]

[joncleaves]

The simple act of breaking through does not place the body in a mandatory rally.

Same for charging. Charging *without contact* requires a rally, but not simply charging.

Please check out 5.41. Always ok to look at the rulebook before asking a question.