Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[lilroblis]

I loved the theme lists - I ran into one Byzantine list and Russ and Catalan company - my biggest discovery was just how poor EHK is agains foot - mounted or dismounted.
My worst moment was being charged in the flank by LC Lance (I am a 12 man EHK/MC unit) and routing on contact - 3 at more will do that.
My best moment - was just fun opponents - I dont believe my dice have ever been as poor in a tournament (went through 5 sets of dice - and they are all due for disintegration)

[lilroblis]

had accidentally brought my list book to work and looked at it over lunch - this could very well end up as a macedonian theme.
You have Early Alexandrian , and macedonian successor , plus Cartaginian (early) and Syracusan that alll match up well vs hoplites - I have not played them recently but my guess is that the armies you will see will be Macedonian, Carthaginian and maybe Egyptian and then Hoplites .
Of the choices - in my mind the pike armies would be at 1440 maybe 1440 for list 26 - elephants and pike
1480 for Alexandrian Macedonian
1540 for syracusan and Early Carthaginian
1600 for everything else except
1660 - Early Archaemenid persian
And I would maybe add Scythian as I thought there were battles against the scythians .
I would also tend to want to run terain heavy boards - as most battles were run on narrow frontage that I remember - maybe some historians can help?

[scott holder]

Heh heh, lemme stop this dead in its tracks. There won't be any Macedonian armies for obvious reasons. Okay, 11/Early Macedonians is in.

And no Skythians, again for obvious reasons. Take Lists 3 and 17 and look at their enemies. That's it. Might add 1-2 others but nothing that's a real outlier. If somebody wants Skythians bad enough, they can play List 3 with a Bosporan CinC.

Having E Carthaginian is dicey in the context of this theme. Scutarii simply overwhelm hoplites on most days plus such a list already gets its own theme. Of course it could qualify for the 1440 Point treatment.

Again, lemme stress that it's waaaay too early to look for some finalized set of lists for this theme. We've barely started discussing it.

And such discussions should take place in another thread.

scott

[lilroblis]

By the way - the lists I mentyioned are the ones the two main lists give as historical opponents - hence the comparison.
Real good shot of having a non -hoplite theme, balanced by the concern that if you limit it too much - few people have the army

[scott holder]

This is a story I shared with a number of folks but since it resulted in a funny comment at Hcon, I thought I'd share it here.

The guy who got me into ancients, WRG 5th, was a elementary school teacher, a wounded Vietnam Vet (a Marine) and a dabbler in almost anything miniature wargaming related that was available in 1976-77.

I'd been playing miniature wargames (AWI) for about a year when I met him. Over the next 3 years he purchased a variety of things, typically never enough for an entire army. Crappy painter and I mean crappy painter. I went off to college, he kept getting bits and pieces of stuff here and there during my six years off.

I get out of school and move back to DC, still saw him on weekends. At some point, he was cleaning up his massively cluttered back room where he kept all this crap and he literally handed over bags of painted, half-painted and unpainted 25mm lead, all Hinchcliffe and 1st and 2nd Generation Minifigs. Lots and lots of Byzantines.

It's always been a hole in my army collection. I can do something from most periods we play except this. So, the Theme was my final motivation to get this army done and more importantly, get it done using this lead. I've been hauling this stuff around for 25 years now and wanted to get it on the table as much for my fun but to also kinda as an homage (I know, roll your eyes) to the guy who got me Hooked On Ancients.

So, I tell this story to a number of people, Don Carter being one. I've been playing ancients with Don off and on (mostly off the last 15 years) for 25 years now. He's sitting watching part of my 1st round game against Rob Richardson and I tell him this touching back story. He looks at the lead and says "I can hear those guys geezing as they march across the table that lead's so old."

Fun times.

And I *still* have a crapload of mostly Minifig SHK figs from the late 70s from this same collection. And yes, they're painted like crap.

scott

[srawls]

[Ed Kollmer]

Well I have caught up with all the missives from H-Con. It is REALLY great. I was glad that Matt Kollmer was able to make it. (Dan W did a good job).
I have a couple of reactions:

First: I am happy about the Hoplite theme. I still have the 2004 Hoplite theme Tee shirt. That I wear proudly. Also I just finished painting the 10000(Ex-cyrean) Hoplites for my Later Hoplite Army from lead that I have had from (I forgot how long ago). They are Nasmith lead. (I feel your emotions, Scott H, about the old lead). I HOPE I can make H-Con to wear my2004 Hoplite theme Tee shirt for this coming theme.

Second: I am glad that Scott H related that story about how he got into the hobby. I guess I am really showing my age that listening to it really touched me. Sorry to get emotional about it. Back to being a hardened Gamer. Grrrrrrhhhh.

Third: It REALLY gave me CHILLS. When I read that Steve R is going to look at the Nike Byzantine. I felt like a parent when the Doctor comes in and says that he has to look at my baby. What is he going to do????? What is wrong with my baby. What is wrong with the Varangians?????????
I sit in the waiting room and wait for news.
Scott H said that everything would be all right.

Ed the NIKE byzantinophil

[Ed Kollmer]

WOW I guess I am losing it. That 2004 Hoplite Tee Shirt. Well ......... it is really 1994 Hoplite Theme Tee Shirt.
Ed the Byzantinophil (with a 10 year memory loss)

[Matt Kollmer]

Yay...I got to read the forum finally! and interesting stuff, just had to reply:)
When I went through my Byzantine list, I initially bought the darts. But when I thought about it more.....Close order formations that don't have B usually dont get to shoot at much as they can very easily be avoided. So at best case, you get a support shot...thats if you dont charge yourself and someone actually decides to run through that dart storm. So ultimately I saw it as a waste of pts.....especially now that LI must recall when within 40p of them...so just push them up. The new deployment rules I thought really helped the Skuts (Kontaratioi) They were fighting or pertinent in all my battles.
I really liked the handicapping......I did play Graig Scott's Sassanid Persians, I think If he had the full 1600pts, I'd have been in more trouble than I already was...however, he was hard pressed to do some of the things he wanted and once commited, I had opportunities with my Cav because I outnumbered him......lost in the end, but it was a great battle.
Someone had mentioned the 2 list tourneys (Eway???) I remember those too, as hard as it may be to believe, but personally, I like the one list format we use now. I think it lends itself to a more pure art of listbuilding, and from my experiences, the second list wasn't usually used anyway. I'd take an anti-elephant list.....then either wouldnt play elephants or my opponent would take his alternate list with little or no elephants anticipating my anti-elephant troops.....so more often than not, I'd use one list anyway.
Scott's story is fantastic...I just knew you were a sentimental man under all that "Geez...what now?!!" stuff!! well, in fact that was one of the main reasons I really wanted to play in the theme. One reason....beside the obvious one; that my father plays....that I always played ancients.....is I still remember when I "was" (and I'll write that it quotes for all of your benefits as so many still remember me as that kid ) a little kid, I came home from school and there was a huge box delivered from the mail. I got real excited. Asked dad (Ed the Byzantinophile) what was in the box.... "we'll open it later" was his only stoic reply......."WHAT?.....I wanna see what it is!!"......"we'll open it later" came the same reply. SO off I went to imagine what could possibly be in that box. That night, Dad took the box, looked at me and I jumped up and off to the kitchen table we went.........well inside was the coolest thing I ever saw! hundreds of miniature soldiers!!! Dad's Byzantine army, the first army to inhabit the Kollmer household, and the same army I played in the theme.........Hooked

[Ed Kollmer]

Well said Matt
Ed the Proud Byzantinophil