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lilroblis
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:28 am Post subject: Eligibility to fight |
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two scenarios
I have close formation LTs, jls - they charge getting two full ranks with Lts - how many get that Javelin bonus
I am running EHC L,jls in African warrior - on the charge how many get the +1 for Javelins - everyone eligible to fight or just those who would fight if just javelins?
I cannot find either in the rules |
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Mark Stone
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know about African Warrior, but the close formation LTS,JLS foot get 6 with the JLS+ and 2 without it. |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:16 am Post subject: JLS + |
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Foot fighting at contact get a JLS + for half the second rank, regardless of any other weapon that they may also be using.
If only half the back rank with whatever other weapon also fight, then apply the JLS + to those figures (JLS + does not also get the 'other' half the 2nd rank fighting in addition).
Example:
2HCW,JLS,Sh Ostmen, who with list rule fight 1.5 ranks when charging/counter-charging/pursuing, will hit on one element frontage with 5 figures at 2HCW factors and the JLS + under such circumstances.
Your LTS,JLS troops, when charging/counter-charging non-impetuously fight with 6 at LTS and JLS + and 2 at just LTS (the 2nd rankers who do not get JLS +, but do fight as LTS under appropriate circumstances).
As for mounted, without a detailed special list rule, no lancers also get JLS +. If the African Warrior list you are using does not state that such get to use JLS + with Lance, then they do not and their JLS is just a missile weapon (of dubious value). |
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lilroblis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: eligibility to fight |
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Frank - the Lance, Jls is an eligible troop type - so I assume that every figure that can use lance can use the Jls plus if it applies?
Note the African warrior rules allow using both for specified lists |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: Nope |
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JLS+ is not permitted to lancers.
A clear and specific list rule (or army list book general specification) would have to exist in order for Lancers to use a JLS + as the rules do not normally permit this.
Note that Lithuanian L,JLS,Sh LC/MC/HC are available but DO NOT get JLS + in addition to Lance hth factor.
Note that written in NWW is that JLS + is permitted to 2HCT troops where available when this is not normally permitted by the rules.
Frank |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: found it... |
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The African Warrior list book has a missiles rules section at the beginning covering Dart and Javelin, and has the last line:
"As a list rule under Warrior 9.22, L-armed Cavalry may use optional JLS as a HTH weapon."
Therefore, African Warrior lance armed cavalry who are also permitted JLS will get the JLS + in hth combat for 1.5 ranks (same number of figures as have lance).
Frank |
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lilroblis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: eligibility to fight |
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| Thanks Frank |
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Terry D
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: found it... |
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| Frank Gilson wrote: |
The African Warrior list book has a missiles rules section at the beginning covering Dart and Javelin, and has the last line:
"As a list rule under Warrior 9.22, L-armed Cavalry may use optional JLS as a HTH weapon."
Therefore, African Warrior lance armed cavalry who are also permitted JLS will get the JLS + in hth combat for 1.5 ranks (same number of figures as have lance).
Frank |
The list rule doesn't seem to include the ability to fight 1.5. Ranks |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| No need to...Lance fights 1.5 ranks, JLS + applies to half the 2nd rank figures in other cases...so L,JLS with the African rule fight 1.5 ranks as Lance with JLS +. |
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Terry D
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| No need to...Lance fights 1.5 ranks, JLS + applies to half the 2nd rank figures in other cases...so L,JLS with the African rule fight 1.5 ranks as Lance with JLS +. |
Not for cav jls+ is just the front rank, that is why we have all the various list rules allowing cav with jls to fight a rank and a half. Your interpretations on jls with 2 rank lts indicates that they get jls+ for only 1/2 of the 2nd rank, thus with out a list rule it should be only the first rank. |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Terry D wrote: |
| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| No need to...Lance fights 1.5 ranks, JLS + applies to half the 2nd rank figures in other cases...so L,JLS with the African rule fight 1.5 ranks as Lance with JLS +. |
Not for cav jls+ is just the front rank, that is why we have all the various list rules allowing cav with jls to fight a rank and a half. Your interpretations on jls with 2 rank lts indicates that they get jls+ for only 1/2 of the 2nd rank, thus with out a list rule it should be only the first rank. |
African Warrior specifically allows, as noted above in this thread, lance armed cavalry to use JLS as a hth weapon. That means that African Warrior lancers, who can also be equipped with JLS, get the JLS +.
Your point is that this should only be for the front rank. However, by analogy with foot who have LTS and JLS, who get JLS + for the back rank as well as the front, the intent would appear to be to permit such lancers to have JLS + for the back rank should they purchase JLS for those lancers as well.
Frank |
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Terry D
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| Terry D wrote: |
| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| No need to...Lance fights 1.5 ranks, JLS + applies to half the 2nd rank figures in other cases...so L,JLS with the African rule fight 1.5 ranks as Lance with JLS +. |
Not for cav jls+ is just the front rank, that is why we have all the various list rules allowing cav with jls to fight a rank and a half. Your interpretations on jls with 2 rank lts indicates that they get jls+ for only 1/2 of the 2nd rank, thus with out a list rule it should be only the first rank. |
African Warrior specifically allows, as noted above in this thread, lance armed cavalry to use JLS as a hth weapon. That means that African Warrior lancers, who can also be equipped with JLS, get the JLS +.
Your point is that this should only be for the front rank. However, by analogy with foot who have LTS and JLS, who get JLS + for the back rank as well as the front, the intent would appear to be to permit such lancers to have JLS + for the back rank should they purchase JLS for those lancers as well.
Frank |
earlier in the thread you indicte that 2 full rank lts don't get to use the Jls+ fully in the second rank. So by extrapolation it is logical to assume that JLS+ for cav should be restricted to the front rank. You're being inconsistent with how youre applying the language of who is eligible to fight. |
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Frank Gilson
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Terry D wrote: |
| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| Terry D wrote: |
| Frank Gilson wrote: |
| No need to...Lance fights 1.5 ranks, JLS + applies to half the 2nd rank figures in other cases...so L,JLS with the African rule fight 1.5 ranks as Lance with JLS +. |
Not for cav jls+ is just the front rank, that is why we have all the various list rules allowing cav with jls to fight a rank and a half. Your interpretations on jls with 2 rank lts indicates that they get jls+ for only 1/2 of the 2nd rank, thus with out a list rule it should be only the first rank. |
African Warrior specifically allows, as noted above in this thread, lance armed cavalry to use JLS as a hth weapon. That means that African Warrior lancers, who can also be equipped with JLS, get the JLS +.
Your point is that this should only be for the front rank. However, by analogy with foot who have LTS and JLS, who get JLS + for the back rank as well as the front, the intent would appear to be to permit such lancers to have JLS + for the back rank should they purchase JLS for those lancers as well.
Frank |
earlier in the thread you indicte that 2 full rank lts don't get to use the Jls+ fully in the second rank. So by extrapolation it is logical to assume that JLS+ for cav should be restricted to the front rank. You're being inconsistent with how youre applying the language of who is eligible to fight. |
I indicated that JLS + is not given to rear ranks of foot in the LTS,JLS case fully should said LTS fight in two full ranks in whatever circumstance, but only to half the rear rank figures. That in an of itself is an interpretation, and not strictly mentioned in the rules, if perhaps implied.
From African Warrior:
"As a list rule under Warrior 9.22, L-armed Cavalry may use optional JLS as a HTH weapon."
I agree that African Warrior, in its note about L and JLS, should be more specific than simply this.
I'll tell Bill to call out exactly who gets JLS + and when. I'd say front rank and half the rear rank (same as are fighting with Lance) at first contact (and also if pursuing or fighting elephants).
It would appear that is what Bill intended when writing the lists. It applies only to LC, MC, HC and EHC, so the tabletop effect is not unbalancing overall.
Frank |
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Terry D
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have a problem with either interpretation just that it is the same, or that it is spelled out. From a game balance stand point it is probably not huge as list rules go you still have to buy the jls, which is less potent that a bow in missle fire. |
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lilroblis
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Location: Cleveland Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: african warrior - |
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| I think jls and b in this case are fairly similar - it ads nice flavor though |
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