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Serbian #20 Holy Warrior

 
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Serbian #20 Holy Warrior

Serbian #20

CinC 2E Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh + PA - 178
Sub same + P - 118

2x 2E Vlastelini Ir A EHK/HK L,Sh - 109 (218)
2x 2E Vlastelini Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh - 103 (206)

6E Voynici ir C MI LTS,Sh - 97

12E Krayishnici Ir C LMI 4E 2HCW,Sh 8E Jls - 109

6E Serbian javelinmen Ir C LI Jls,Sh - 61

3x 2E Tartar Merc Reg C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B - 46 (138)

6E Turkish Merc Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91
6E Cuman Merc  Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91

6E Gusars Ir C LC Jls,Sh - 97

6E Serbian Archers Ir C LI B - 49

1453

option 1:
12E Krayishnici Ir C LMI 4E 2HCW,Sh 8E Jls - 109
+ 4E Archers - 16
1592 - 80 scouting

option 2:
2E Vlastelini Ir A EHK/HK L,Sh - 109
+6E Archers 24


1586 - maybe an element of Sh addition for Krayishnici Jls for expanding

81 scouting


6 units of pretty good knights - irreg A helps in combat certainly and for dismounting.

The LC is not ideal - but it is plentiful. The Tartars are able to fight rank and a half and the LC bow helps them absorb the shooting vs. other light cavalry. The LC would allow the knights to get into place for the attack.

The big barbarian units are brittle BUT they also can hit pretty hard and give you a decent and potent rough terrain force - needed on day 2 of the NICT.

My 2 cents on the Serbian list. 
Todd

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Last edited by Todd Kaeser on Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Barb rules

Just note that your big Krazinawatsit LMI units do not get extra guys fighting from Barbarian rules for 3rd/4th ranks if they have any 2HCT.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject:

I thought I fixed it - will edit the top list

Todd

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: yup

You got it...a big cheap LMI unit like those here solidly hold terrain, and against some opponents can go in the open. You have enough scouting to place second frequently often...which helps.

EHK/HK are really efficient knights...especially the Irr A guys.

Definitely a solid list here...and there are also Serbians on various other lists, serving as efficient allies.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Serbian #20

CinC 2E Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh + PA - 178
Sub same + P - 118

2x 2E Vlastelini Ir A EHK/HK L,Sh - 109 (218)
2x 2E Vlastelini Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh - 103 (206)

6E Voynici ir C MI LTS,Sh - 97

2x 12E Krayishnici Ir C LMI 4E 2HCW,Sh 4E Jls,,Sh 4E Jls - 121 (242)

6E Serbian javelinmen Ir C LI Jls,Sh - 61

3x 2E Tartar Merc Reg C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B - 46 (138)

6E Turkish Merc Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91
6E Cuman Merc Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91

6E Gusars Ir C LC Jls,Sh - 97

10E Serbian Archers Ir C LI B - 65

1602 80 scouting

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
Serbian #20

CinC 2E Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh + PA - 178
Sub same + P - 118

2x 2E Vlastelini Ir A EHK/HK L,Sh - 109 (218)
2x 2E Vlastelini Ir B EHK/HK L,Sh - 103 (206)

6E Voynici ir C MI LTS,Sh - 97

2x 12E Krayishnici Ir C LMI 4E 2HCW,Sh 4E Jls,,Sh 4E Jls - 121 (242)

6E Serbian javelinmen Ir C LI Jls,Sh - 61

3x 2E Tartar Merc Reg C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B - 46 (138)

6E Turkish Merc Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91
6E Cuman Merc Ir C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 91

6E Gusars Ir C LC Jls,Sh - 97

10E Serbian Archers Ir C LI B - 65

1602 80 scouting


Not sure what that nearly useless close order foot unit is for...better as more loose, or as LI...otherwise, fairly solid...although Irr C LI JLS,Sh is nearly useless too...better as archers.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Not sure what that nearly useless close order foot unit is for...better as more loose, or as LI...otherwise, fairly solid...although Irr C LI JLS,Sh is nearly useless too...better as archers.


It is required in the list. Not much you can do but take it and hope you find a useful spot on the board for it. What is funny by the critique of the unit is many here on the forum actively choose a unit much like this to be the "push" in the list against shooters/Meso armies. Vs. Pike armies this unit is a rout waiting to happen unless the Varangians and SHI are nearby.

I disagree with the LI Jls,Sh unit. Obviously, not an open unit. BUT it can hold terrain very well (hard to shoot away and in rough is not required to recall) and if opposed by LI with missile weapon it can drive it out of the terrain or even kill it if it gets lucky rolls.

I added shields to the 2nd rank of the LMI units in case they lose 1st bound - the 2HCW can retreat to the 3rd rank and the unit can survive a little longer being shielded.

Todd

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
Quote:
Not sure what that nearly useless close order foot unit is for...better as more loose, or as LI...otherwise, fairly solid...although Irr C LI JLS,Sh is nearly useless too...better as archers.


It is required in the list. Not much you can do but take it and hope you find a useful spot on the board for it. What is funny by the critique of the unit is many here on the forum actively choose a unit much like this to be the "push" in the list against shooters/Meso armies. Vs. Pike armies this unit is a rout waiting to happen unless the Varangians and SHI are nearby.

I disagree with the LI Jls,Sh unit. Obviously, not an open unit. BUT it can hold terrain very well (hard to shoot away and in rough is not required to recall) and if opposed by LI with missile weapon it can drive it out of the terrain or even kill it if it gets lucky rolls.

I added shields to the 2nd rank of the LMI units in case they lose 1st bound - the 2HCW can retreat to the 3rd rank and the unit can survive a little longer being shielded.

Todd


Mandatory crap! Arggggg! Hrm, Serbians seem best on other lists.

Irr LI JLS,Sh is only useful in the heaviest terrain, preferrably woods...and if anything real opposes them, then they will eventually get caught and routed.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject:

I am not a huge fan of Irr LI, JLS, Sh. In the past, when there was more LI, they did ok in a "chase them away/maybe catch them" role, but now against the common regular LMI, they die alot. Also not great vs. enemy LC. The key thing is their inability to counter backwards without having to turn around. Regular LI, JLS, Sh is much better.

Dave


Last edited by theblackprince on Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Weird gambity things with Serbians

How about a unit or 2 of knights as 2E EHK, L, Sh IrrA backed by 2E HC, L, B, Sh IrrB? Against elephants they could dismount with the (now 1E) of HI, LTS, B, Sh in front backed by 2E of Irr A EHI, JLS, Sh. Not too bad! You'd have to deploy them with the HC up front to dismount like this, but in that matchup likely thats ok. Against Mesos, you go EHI/EHI/HI dismounted counting as 10 figs for CPF on a 1E frontage. Expensive, so just a couple such.

Another thing with IrrA's- how about Delay orders for a command of just Irr A knights and bow LC? The LC can still evade and then IrrA's no longer have to charge. You can't cross the center line under delay, but could be a option with certain terrain set-ups. This idea works for Georgians also.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Knights and HC

I like the suggestion of KN and HC for dismounting - but shoudnt it be 1 el KN 2 el HC - as the dismount 2 for 1? I thought 1 el of HC dismounted as no elements of foot? Unless Mongol
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Knights and HC

lilroblis wrote:
I like the suggestion of KN and HC for dismounting - but shoudnt it be 1 el KN 2 el HC - as the dismount 2 for 1? I thought 1 el of HC dismounted as no elements of foot? Unless Mongol


You are correct, "Theoretical part elements are lost when dismounting".

Therefore, you would have to be EHK or HK (1 element) backed by 2 elements of HC L,B,Sh...or fronted if you want the LTS element in front.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Right, but what I am suggesting is a 12 figure unit for frequent use mounted (with shooting from the HC as a wrinkle rarely seen with knight units), that can dismount with the 1E of HI, LTS, B, Sh- this 1E goes in back behind the EHI against some things like Mesos, and in front against elephants. 181 pts, not *too* bad for what you get.
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