Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/23/2005 02:43:04 Central Standard Time,
rockd@... writes:

So the player who doesn't buy all of the army books will be at a
disadvantage when playing someone who is using such a list, because
he's facing a rule he never heard of before?>>


Just for you, Doug, when we are all done with lists, I'll put a list of all
the list rules online for free...








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[Doug]

><< Two things: Warrior rulesbook 2.0 needs to include all list rules,
>noted/referenced in the relevant sections,>>
>
>2.0?? If you mean the revised rulebook I am working on now, it will surely
>*not* contain any list rule that is specific to an army.

So the player who doesn't buy all of the army books will be at a
disadvantage when playing someone who is using such a list, because
he's facing a rule he never heard of before?

It will also slow down the start of the game; I'd want to write it
down to be sure I got it right and to start thinking about when or
how it will become relevent to the game.

[Ewan McNay]

Exactly. I hadn't considered the gamestart problem, but that's also true
- and if the decaration of troop list rules is after deployment (as I
would guess) then you still run into the likelihood of surprised opponents
crying foul. I forget who it was that compared the situation to the
infamous 'but I called Phil' rules of 7th, but it's apt.

Doug wrote:

>><< Two things: Warrior rulesbook 2.0 needs to include all list rules,
>>noted/referenced in the relevant sections,>>
>>
>>2.0?? If you mean the revised rulebook I am working on now, it will surely
>>*not* contain any list rule that is specific to an army.
>
>
> So the player who doesn't buy all of the army books will be at a
> disadvantage when playing someone who is using such a list, because
> he's facing a rule he never heard of before?
>
> It will also slow down the start of the game; I'd want to write it
> down to be sure I got it right and to start thinking about when or
> how it will become relevent to the game.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[joncleaves]

I hadn't considered the gamestart problem, but that's also true
- and if the decaration of troop list rules is after deployment (as I
would guess) then you still run into the likelihood of surprised opponents
crying foul.>>

I'll take a hard look at when we will say officially a player has to do this and
consider what you and Doug have said.

I would like to hear from the group on what they think about this. It would not
occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we saying that there are a
significant number of players who will only buy certain lists books and never
buy certain others, even if they plan to play in open comps? Personally I find
this strange. If I show up at Cold Wars and my opponent declares he is playing
Wallachian, I get out my Holy Warrior and refresh myself as to what he has, both
troop type and list rule wise. I would expect him to declare what he has taken,
but not what he *could* be taking - an important distinction. What he *could*
be taking is up to me to discern.

To us, the idea of 'list books' is a temporary measure. We used the idea to get
lists into the hands of the players as quickly as possible, but once done, we
don't really plan to continue to use that model - instead we will publish a list
book that contains them all. Seems like this would alleviate this 'problem'.
We certainly don't feel beholden to the idea that lists can only come in books
by period/geography - that's just the way someone else chose to do it 30 years
ago....

Jon

[Ed Forbes]

Jon,

I think the online format to publish all the little "extras", such as a list of
all the list rules is a very good way to go. Easier to update and a lot lighter
on the pocket book for publishing costs.

Thanks for taking the time to do so.

Ed

-- JonCleaves@... wrote:

when we are all done with lists, I'll put a list of all
the list rules online for free...








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[Doug]

>Exactly. I hadn't considered the gamestart problem, but that's also true
>- and if the decaration of troop list rules is after deployment (as I
>would guess) then you still run into the likelihood of surprised opponents
>crying foul. I forget who it was that compared the situation to the
>infamous 'but I called Phil' rules of 7th, but it's apt.

And when the world goes wireless PDA, it will be "But I Instant
Messaged Jon..." :)

[Doug]

>It would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we
>saying that there are a significant number of players who will only
>buy certain lists books and never buy certain others, even if they
>plan to play in open comps?

I'm thinking in particular about the "beginner" who has not yet
decided or had the need to invest in everything. Also the "period
specific" player who enters an Open because its the only game
available and he just wants to play.

-- Still totally crushed by discovering that FHE did the lists for my
beloved Wheelies first only because they are simple and not really
tournament viable :)

[joncleaves]

Jon,

I think the online format to publish all the little "extras", such as a list of
all the list rules is a very good way to go. Easier to update and a lot lighter
on the pocket book for publishing costs.

Thanks for taking the time to do so.

Ed>>

No prob, Ed. I'll do it as soon as we settle on the list rules for Classical,
so it will be online before Cold Wars, even though Classical will only be
available for purchase at CW, not eligible for use yet (as no one would have had
it).

I am looking to see if I can integrate Ewan's idea into the Fast Warrior section
- we are going to look at synchronizing the fast list rules with the main list
rules. It might work to just list them all once at the start of 18.0 with a
list of who they apply to and that would have the same effect as Ewan's request.
It is all about page count, though....

J

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/23/2005 17:23:27 Central Standard Time,
cncbump@... writes:

This is a source of frustration for me. The thought that a unit could
conceal that it was hiding pigs, flamable liquids and open flame (since the
zippo was not universally being used by soldiers yet) while still holding
hoplons, and weapons and maintaining unit cohesion is anathama to me.>>

I am taking a long look at whether this will stay secret. Don't know the
answer yet. And before you pig-wielders whine, be thankful that you even have
this gimmick - if it were solely up to me, it wouldn't be in the game...lol
And that isn't the only one...

<< As for avalanches, if the LI is in ambush and thus cannot be seen then
simply the declaration that the hill is rocky is enough intelligence. If
the LI is seen and they have such weapons "piled up" so as to create an
avalanche, then this also should be declared as it would be visible to any
unit approaching with a modicum of a sense of concern.>>


See above.

Jon








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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/23/2005 17:55:44 Central Standard Time,
thresh1642@... writes:

Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. >>

A pace is 2.5 feet and you, Todd, as a BrightSword aficionado, should know
this...lol






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[John Garlic]

Hi Greg,

I never declare the morals of my army :-)

cya the 12th,
John Garlic

In a message dated 2/23/2005 6:15:27 PM Central Standard Time,
greg.regets@... writes:
Each player should declare EVERYTHING there is to know about the
army, other than moral.

If they don't, they will not get the invite to the strip club after
the tournament, to help chew up Greg's expense account. ;-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ewan McNay]

Incidentally, are we still on for the TCM (Tuxedo Challenge Match)? I
guess I should take some variety of Scots army to go with the kilt and
such, hmm?

:)

hrisikos@... wrote:

>
>> I would like to hear from the group on what they think about this. It
>>would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we saying
>>that there are a significant number of players who will only buy certain
>>lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan to play in
>>open comps? Personally I find this strange.
>
>
>
> Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced *intelligence* has
> ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you whatever
> you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does the same.
> With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general, too.
>
> I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I don't think
> I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene (but I will
> show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky hill
> occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you later on my
> game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want to know,
> like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
> etc.........
>
>
>
>
> Greek
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>

[Bill Chriss]

>
> I would like to hear from the group on what they think about this. It
> would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we saying
> that there are a significant number of players who will only buy certain
> lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan to play in
> open comps? Personally I find this strange.


Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced *intelligence* has
ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you whatever
you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does the same.
With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general, too.

I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I don't think
I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene (but I will
show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky hill
occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you later on my
game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want to know,
like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
etc.........




Greek

[Bill Chriss]

> Incidentally, are we still on for the TCM (Tuxedo Challenge Match)?
> I
> guess I should take some variety of Scots army to go with the kilt and
> such, hmm?
>
>
>


Absolutely. Historicon, or else thre's a very remote chance we might get
together when I come to Cambridge in April for reunion. Now that you
mention kilts, though, perhaps it should be chitons or cuirasses, greaves,
and pteruges, eh?


Greek

[Chris Bump]

This is a source of frustration for me. The thought that a unit could
conceal that it was hiding pigs, flamable liquids and open flame (since the
zippo was not universally being used by soldiers yet) while still holding
hoplons, and weapons and maintaining unit cohesion is anathama to me. But if
it is to be allowed then how on earth can one argue, with a sense of
seriousness, that a unit could not conceal the fact that it was concealing
darts or for that matter fire lances.

As for avalanches, if the LI is in ambush and thus cannot be seen then
simply the declaration that the hill is rocky is enough intelligence. If
the LI is seen and they have such weapons "piled up" so as to create an
avalanche, then this also should be declared as it would be visible to any
unit approaching with a modicum of a sense of concern.

These types of paradox within the game frustrate me.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: hrisikos@... [mailto:hrisikos@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:49 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: declaring list rules



>
> I would like to hear from the group on what they think about this. It
> would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we saying
> that there are a significant number of players who will only buy certain
> lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan to play in
> open comps? Personally I find this strange.


Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced *intelligence* has
ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you whatever
you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does the same.
With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general, too.

I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I don't think
I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene (but I will
show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky hill
occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you later on my
game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want to know,
like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
etc.........




Greek



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