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A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
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Zulus
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Zulus

Someone has been painting a Zulu army...Matt Kollmer? Wink

Here is Jamie's list from 2016 NCT:
CinC 2 RA/RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 145
2 RA LMI HTW JLS Sh 66
2 RA LMI HTW JLS Sh 66
2 RA LMI HTW JLS Sh 66
2 RA LMI 2HCW JLS Sh 62
2 RA LMI 2HCW JLS Sh 62
6 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 154
6 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 154
4 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 106
2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 58
2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 58
2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 58
2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 58
Sub 2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 92
2 RB LMI HTW JLS Sh 58
6 RC LMI JLS Sh 106
6 RC LMI JLS Sh 106
2 RC LMI JLS Sh 42
2 RC LMI JLS Sh 42
2 RC LMI JLS Sh 42

He chose to use a mix of units sizes and equipment. It looks like he has a 'delaying' command for terrain in the Sub General and an 'attacking' command under the CinC. Strangely this is zero scouting points when some LI is available.

I naively throw together this:
Zulu
CinC 2E Reg A/B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 145
Sub 2E Reg B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 92
3 units of 6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B 165
4 units of 4E Reg B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 424
3 units of 4E Reg A LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 366
4E Reg C LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 90
3 units of 4E Reg B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 318 = 1600
16 units, 2 cmds, 9 SP

Fewer units, more morale, some LI for a little scouting, all HTW.

This, plus their Bantu Infantry rules, look good against enemy heavy-infantry armies such as MesoAmerican...but very poor against SHK, EHK, SHC or even any mounted lancer heavy army.

Debate!

Frank
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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject:

For the lazy, can you tell us what the Bantu infantry rules are?
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Mark Stone wrote:
For the lazy, can you tell us what the Bantu infantry rules are?


Yes:
Bantu Infantry are eligible to use Barbarian Infantry Rules 2 and 3.
1. Loose order Bantu Infantry have three march segments, as an exception to Warrior Rules 6.2, and so take no extra fatigue points for marching in segment 3, as an exception to the Barbarian Infantry Rules
2. Loose order Bantu Infantry may always evade if charged, regardless of formation.
3. Loose order Bantu Infantry not in skirmish formation have the benefit of a -2 tactical factor in preparatory shooting.

Barb Inf rules 2 and 3 are extra figures fighting from rear ranks and eager when friends are fighting...these will still only apply to Irregular Bantu Infantry and not those who are regulars.

Thus the Regular Zulus only benefit from Bantu 2 and 3, can evade if charged and are a -2 for being shot at.

Also, the Zulu list (African Warrior List 25, Southern Herders) has the list rule:
As an exception to Warrior Rules 6.163, Reg Ndebele/Zulu Warriors/Married Warriors who are willing or eager do not have their charge cancelled by frontal charges declared on them by impetuous foot bodies, and may countercharge impetuous foot bodies that have declared frontal charges against them.

Note that their HTW still takes a -2 against steady pike or LTS.
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lilroblis
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Franks posts are all hidden from me

Anyone else struggle to see them?
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jamiepwhite
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: More Zulu comments

Derek had a picture of someone's Zulu camp, it was very impressive.

The LI is irregular and doesn't benefit from any of the infantry rules. If Zulu warriors could be LI so that you would have regular LI, I would have bought some. The RB Zulu foot in small units does just fine as a substitute for LI.

The sub command is exactly for that, cheaper Zulu foot for occupying terrain and delaying on a front.

The NICT list has the 2HCW units as RA, from game play experience the list would be a little more effective with RB 2HCW units and more of the 2 RA LMI HTW JLS Sh units.

Knights aren't really the problem for Zulus because of the extra fatigues on their charge, it's armies like Rajput with lots of EHC and HC lancers that keep rolling long are the problem. Smile
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject:

The small units that can swarm areas are a challenge to an opponent - especially if waivers are passed.
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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject:

I see nothing but problems for this army facing any list with significant mounted shock troops. On the other hand, it will demolish Oriental archer armies (LTS,B types), and do quite well against Meso Americans.

Paper, scissors, rock... the Circle of Life continues.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject:

I think the Zulus take the minus vs. LTS/P right even though they are HTW armed?

Todd

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lilroblis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Zulus

They do take the minus - but 6@5 vs 8@4 - even fight - but you pick the point , and can break off if you like
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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Zulus

lilroblis wrote:
They do take the minus - but 6@5 vs 8@4 - even fight - but you pick the point , and can break off if you like


Exactly right, and since you're all As and Bs and the LTS,B guys are mostly Cs with some Ds, the odds are very much in your favor. If you slam 2 of your 8 figure units into a 16 figure LTS,B unit, then you're looking to roll up with one of your units while he doesn't, or he rolls down and you don't. Very good odds you can get this outcome. You should disorder him, and he may not disorder both of your units. If he fails to disorder one of your units then that unit does not follow up, charges him next bound while the other unit follows up, and he routs.

You can do this at multiple places across the line with little to no risk to yourself. The result should be a couple of routs in the middle of tightly packed medium to low morale units. I'll happily take those odds.
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Matt Kollmer
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:07 am    Post subject:

I actually just finished my Zulus:-). Maybe I'll try to post some pics on here.
I may have to retool a bit.... I did use LI, but I bought some IA LMI 2HCW JLS sh as follow up shock. They still benefit from bantu rules, but maybe too fragile and those points better spent on regulars.
I like the list a lot but I'm not a fan of its weakness to cav at all. I'll need to be a better player to get results with the army I'm afraid.
I'll post the list I made and then post one that I'm not thinking about now.
Both lists above are interesting
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Matt Kollmer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject:

here was the list I built.....I think itll be a more fun list than a competition list, I want to try the suggestions of all Regs and using small units at some point...this list will likely have some weaknesses:

2 **R/A LMI HTW JLS sh
2 *R/A LMI HTW JLS sh
6 R/C LMI HTW JLS sh
6 R/C LMI HTW JLS sh
6 R/C LMI HTW JLS sh
6 R/C LMI HTW JLS sh
4 R/B LMI HTW JLS sh
4 R/B LMI HTW JLS sh
4 R/B LMI HTW JLS sh
4 R/B LMI HTW JLS sh
2 I/A LMI JLS sh 1/2 2HCW
2 I/A LMI JLS sh 1/2 2HCW
2 I/A LMI JLS sh 1/2 2HCW
10 I/C LI B 1/2 sh
4 I/C LI JLS sh
4 I/C LI JLS sh

1601 pts with 9 Scouting
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: vs. Japanese

I played my list version today against Japanese...

Said Japanese failed to get more than two minor plus die rolls, rest were a mixture of evens and several downs.

Of course that led to Japanese units blowing up from fatigue totals.

Passed my wavers for being charged by the little Japanese mounted that existed, which bounced off.

Japanese really need to win, then get a big plus in round 2...or they exhaust out.

All the flexibility and maneuver/attack timing is the Zulu here.
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Matt Kollmer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:54 am    Post subject:

Japanese are a lot of fun but your right, no up roll, your done.
Interesting matchup......
I posted Pics of some of my Zulus, you may have to go to my profile tho.....I tried to edit to make them public but it wouldn't let me
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jamiepwhite
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Zulu list?

Matt, are you building Zulu or the Ndebele variant? Zulu should have all regular generals but no irregular bachelor warriors. I think the IA bachelor warriors are for the Ndebele variant.

Be true to your inner Zulu warrior. Irregular LI is for wimps, real Zulu LI is RA LMI HTW JLS Sh. Smile
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