Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

Among the Holy Warrior revised lists is a much more playable version of Later Ottoman Turk.

I thought I'd throw out a version maximizing the Janissaries.

CinC PA 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,B,Sh 201
Sub similar 131
7E Irr D(1 C) MC B 91
2x6E Irr D(1 C) LC B 126
2x6E Irr D LI B 74
7x4E Reg B LMI LTS,B,Sh/LTS,B 686
2x4E Reg B LHI/LMI 2HCT,HG,Sh/JLS,CB
w/ 2 stakes 252
4E Reg B LMI LTS,B,Sh/LTS,B 98
2 6E segments of Ditch 30 = 1591
16 units, 2 cmds, 53 scouting
The various loose cav and LC/LI are required...this is all the Janissaries, plus a couple of Ditch they can at least temporarily operate behind, and cross over if not opposed by anything dangerous to them.

[Todd Kaeser]

Looks a lot like a Meso army

Obviously I like it, but that is because I love, love, love regular, LMI shooters who fight and this has a crap-ton of them.

Has some problems as LTS is not an optimal combat weapon and they don't have the circulating combat rules of many of the Meso armies making it vulnerable to knights. Obviously it doesn't fear mass elephants with all that bow, BUT Inca/Tepanec should eat this up.

What can it do vs. Macedonians? Shooting doesn't really slow down pike - not with 3 cpf rule. Push with pike and charge with companions at a distance for waivers - should be ok most of the time as "B" troops" but a way to push and get the line disjointed.

Winning will involve shooting to get an overlap or up roll for a disorder somewhere in the enemy line and hopefully exploit it.

Looks fun.

Todd

[Frank Gilson]

[Todd Kaeser]

I certainly understand all that about stakes and ditches (and I have used them myself), but I wonder if all these fortifications will lead to more 1-1 scores.

Not fun playing siege games IMO


Todd

[Frank Gilson]

[Todd Kaeser]

I understand the intent, but how it often plays out is very different. A typical battle has 5-6 turns in it.

Fox example: Scythed Chariots - designed to disrupt a battle line and cause waivers. What "usually" happens is defender takes 2-3 turns to outmaneuver/avoid chariots and dance back from them - taking away those turns and making the real battle 2-3 turns long - not usually enough for a deciding point total. Lots of 1-1 and 2-1 battles which is a killer in the NICT usually.

The stakes/ditches may cause hesitation on part of your opponent (as they see they can't achieve a result in a few spots) and a resistance to fight on your terms in the one spot on the battle. 2-2 result or 1-1-ish.

The HG units may be able to get into a good shot or two and cause the battle to go in your favor - good troops and can fight as well.

An interesting theory for sure. I love all the "B" grade troops and would be willing to ebb and flow across the battlefield.

Todd

[Mark Stone]

I think Frank's version is more a proof of concept than an actual proposal. There are many choices with the current incarnation of Later Ottoman Turk.

If one is seriously thinking about anti-pike troops, then take either a Serbian or Wallachian ally contingent. Having some knights is good, having some Irr A knights is even better, and having dismounted knights in the form of Irr A EHI JLS,Sh should be a very solid counter to pikes.

One can also think about playing a really aggressive game with light troops. The Wallachians are also a possibility here with LC that fight rank and a half as well as the knights. Even more interesting might be the Albanian contingent, giving you LC who both fight a rank and a half and can charge without disorder in brush. Given the typical NICT terrain density on Saturdays, Albanians have a lot of appeal.

So Frank's list is extremely potent along a single dimension, but an actual list would express Frank's Jannissaries as a significant contingent while offering more balance in terms of shock cav and/or attack light cav.

[lilroblis]

My list has 3-4 uniyts of jannisaries and the rest support troops - but it is a very good list IMHO

[Frank Gilson]

Another way to take the list is the "Derek" style...with lots of units, including bunches of Irr D and Reg D mounted and foot.

This would be supported by 2-3 Janissary units and 2-3 high morale lancer units.

[Mark Stone]

Reg B LMI [hth weapon] + [missile weapon]

Welcome to the new hotness in 2019 Warrior. And so the wheel of "rock - paper scissors" turns once again. For what it's worth there will be no such troops in my 2019 NICT army.

[Frank Gilson]

[Todd Kaeser]

[lilroblis]

For some reason I am just about the only person who loves Macedonians (I believe there is one other). I enjoy just about every game and every tournament - that makes it a hot army to me

[Frank Gilson]