Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[lilroblis]

So reading the rules - I surmise that if HcH have a back rank detachment of foot - they cannot skirmish - is that correct? So fron rank HCh second rank LMI - as written it says that chariots cannot skirmish if more than one rank - here they are not - want to be sure I understand the intent
Thanks
Robert

[Frank Gilson]

I think I answered this in a text...4h HCh in Biblical CAN skirmish, just not any deeper than 1 rank.

and any model that wishes to skirmish must, as usual, have at least one crew with a missile weapon...

[Mark Stone]

Frank wasn't explicit about a key part of Robert's question, namely the effect of LMI detachments labeled as chariot runners on the overall unit's ability to skirmish.

In general LI runners abide by bullet point 11 of 8.7: "LI on a common base with elephants, or behind a single rank of other mounted troops of their own unit, shoot as if second rank figures of an entirely LI body."

The key is that phrase "as if second rank figures of an entirely LI body." So if a front rank chariot can skirmish, then the second rank LI runners treat this as if it were a front rank LI skirmishing, and thus are eligible to skirmish.

Biblical Warrior's list rules extend this rule to LMI who are designated as runners. It's bullet point 5 of Biblical Chariot Rules: "LMI chariot runners shoot in the same circumstances as LI chariot runners...."

Putting this all together you answer each rank by its relevant troop type: the front rank is the only rank of chariots, and therefore eligible to skirmish. The second rank is an LMI Runner detachment, and can skirmish as if a second rank of an entirely LMI unit.

[Frank Gilson]

I think the full explanation of everything would be useful to Robert...he just didn't ask in depth about enough, perhaps.

Biblical HCh with 4 horses with an LMI detachment behind cannot skirmish.

2 or 3 horse such with LMI behind, all models/elements having shooting capability, can skirmish.

The LMI behind AND any LI on the base are treated for firing as if from a 2nd rank of an entirely LI body.

The LI on the base are, however, NOT actually in a 2nd rank, but in the same rank that their chariot model is in.

Thus a unit of 2 chariots, 2 LI on each base, with Reg LMI detachment in a 2nd rank count as 22 figures for casualty calculations.

[lilroblis]

As I read arks answer - runners can shoot and Franks they cannot. As I read Franks explanation it makes sense - without the rules in front of me - the logic flows - through the Biblical rules
The key difference and the one I asked elsewhere is the biblical rules sate that a single rank of "heavy chariots" can skirmish - clearly the LMI are not chariots. Also clearly to me two people who know the rules exceptionally well get to different places
I need to reread, and would love to talk this out with both - I think it substantially changes how one would pick a chariot army - a second rank of shooters has high value - even if they could not fight, but a fighting second rank is also high value
Thanks both of you - I need to read some more and then Ill follow up with both of you
All the best

[Frank Gilson]

[lilroblis]

Frank - they refers to chariots - if it was the unit it would say the unit cannot be over a rank - it does not say that - it says that 4HCh can skirmish one rank deep and they (ie the chariots ) - kind of regular english writing - again I am not sure I care - but the rules as written do not refer to units they refer to chariots. This is where a clarification of intent may help - again it does not change the way I will build an army - but the rules nowhere refer to unit - they refer only to chariots

[Frank Gilson]

[lilroblis]

Thanks Frank